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Post by baw on Oct 18, 2006 9:05:38 GMT -5
I am a little encourage by the announcement. Not enough to buy my usual two cases worth. I will be buying a brick or two this weekend though I was hoping for a little bit more definite decisive of an announcement. It is better than it could have been but not all I wanted it to be!
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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 18, 2006 10:32:20 GMT -5
Actually, I got rather the opposite impression. Joe is a VP at WK, so this message is coming from above the heads of the MW staff, and the message is that the line will continue into 2008... The only sort of announcement about the line we'd expect from WK higher management is a thumbs down or thumbs up. Honestly, the announcement was a lot of words that said nothing. I think Z is right, the reason they won't commit to anything is that Topps is waiting for the sales numbers on Wolfstrike before giving the go ahead on Outlaws. Unfortunately, this lack of commitment is going to hinder sales and will probably end up a self fulfilling prophecy in getting the game cancelled. This was corporate speak for "we don't know what we are going to do, continue or cancel the line; but one thing is certain. If the number crunchers say the game is not profitable and must be discontinued, no one will buy that boat full of Wolfstrike sitting in the warehouse" So they give us something vaporous and vague. BSG is tanking, Horrorclix doesn't have any legs, and Heroclix is in decline. If Mech folds, Wizkids will be done. As such, they have nothing to lose by snowballing everyone about the state of the game. If the company folds no one has to answer the angry mob! The game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. The system is showing it's age and the pieces being released are becoming redundant. The basic engine of the game is fantastic, it's the most tactically interesting and challenging ruleset out there. There is just too much chaff which each expansion and not enough value for the 15.00 booster to justify its purchase. You are better off buying singles, period. The bad news, however, is that the game will flat out not survive a reset. We already had a partial revamp with AoD, but they were to cautious with it and the same old problems have creeped back in. A third edition so soon in the life of the game will make a lot of people very angry even if it's best for the game. To me the outlook isn't very good... -Vladd
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Post by warlord1985 on Oct 18, 2006 11:23:30 GMT -5
Agreed wholeheartedly sir.
Like I said on the Wizkids forums, someone prove me wrong. This is the same song and dance they did for Mageknight, and we all know how well MK is doing now.
Wizkids had made 1 too many mistakes, burned 1 to many bridges with the wrong customers, I think it may be time to for the ship to set sail.
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emouse
Combat Engineer
Posts: 16
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Post by emouse on Oct 18, 2006 12:49:59 GMT -5
Honestly, the announcement was a lot of words that said nothing. I think Z is right, the reason they won't commit to anything is that Topps is waiting for the sales numbers on Wolfstrike before giving the go ahead on Outlaws. Unfortunately, this lack of commitment is going to hinder sales and will probably end up a self fulfilling prophecy in getting the game cancelled. Except WK's sales are tied pretty directly to preorders, which, at this point, are long over. Plus, WK always sells out long before the product is exhausted from the retail chain. The big, big question WK had with Wolf Strike was the new booster format. That's the big thing where they have to wait for a month after release to see how the customers respond. MechWarrior has had a sales history of at least covering its costs. Even Vanguard, which was Liao-heavy and was released shortly before the WK shakeup sold out. Wolf Strike is probably the best selling expansion at my local venue in a long time. Any completely new line is going to be a complete unknown, and has a much higher chance of losing money.
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Post by TrevortheAwesome on Oct 18, 2006 12:50:52 GMT -5
Okay, HE SAID THE LINE IS NOT BEING CANCELED. I know I'm not the only one that read that. If the WizKids guy takes the time to write an open letter to the community to say that the line is not being canceled, then it's not being freaking canceled.
As for everything else, we'll have to wait and see, but just knowing that the game isn't being canceled is enough for me. I can wait until November for everything else.
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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 18, 2006 17:21:13 GMT -5
Okay, HE SAID THE LINE IS NOT BEING CANCELED. I know I'm not the only one that read that. If the WizKids guy takes the time to write an open letter to the community to say that the line is not being canceled, then it's not being freaking canceled. Wow. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, man. After the GAMA show in Vegas 2 years ago, one of the moderators on the realms leaked that a vendor had said that Nexus was likely the last set for MK. Kevin Goddard posted almost immediately on the wizkids site and said Mageknight Nexus is absolutely not the last MK set. The moderator was then banned from the realms, and brow beaten until he made a public apology. Three months later it was cancelled as predicted. My point is not that they are bold faced lying to everyone. Nor is it that I want the game, and company for that matter, to fold. I want the game to be great again. I'm just being realistic. That post was 100 percent spin. No facts were given, about anything. It was a big giant "Eh, Don't worry 'bout it" message. I don't think Joe necessarily knows exactly what is going to happen with the line. All it takes is one Topp's board meeting with the non-game division to fold-up the company, especially if shareholders are calling for a better return on their money. Breaking even is not good business, if the game is not PROFITABLE it will stop being made. They aren't going to continue putting time and effort into this game because they deeply care about Joe gamer and his love of the universe. It's show me the money or go home, unfortunately. Again, I respect Wizkids for what they have done to change the face of gaming. They brought miniature war games to us people who can't or don't have time to paint, all at a pretty affordable price. For the most part, the money I spent on their games has paid me back plenty with great memories of some great games. Not to mention the new friends I have gained from the hobby. That's pretty much why I am only posting my opinion here, more or less among friends. The casual players who might be lurking on the WK site don't really need to know my opinion... I guess what I'm saying is my overall impression is that this game is a hell of a lot closer to being cancelled than supported.... -Vladd
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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 18, 2006 17:45:56 GMT -5
Oh, And one other thing... Okay, HE SAID THE LINE IS NOT BEING CANCELED. I know I'm not the only one that read that. If the WizKids guy takes the time to write an open letter to the community to say that the line is not being canceled, then it's not being freaking canceled. To quote the letter: First and foremost, MechWarrior has not been cancelled. We look forward to supporting this game in 2007 and beyond. To do so, we need to make careful decisions about the best way to move this business forward for the fans.Notice he says that the game has not been cancelled. He does NOT say that it will not be cancelled, tomorrow even. Also he says we look forward to supporting the game in 2007 and beyond. He does not say the game WILL be supported, nor does he say how it will be supported. It might not necessarily even be with new product. Remember, support could just mean keeping the FAQ and forums accessible! I am not trying to nit-pick or argue semantics, I just wanted to point out why this feels like a spin job to me. Just like a good politician, no matter what happens, they can say they didn't lie to us. They avoid explicit promises about the game, but word it to give you a nice, warm, fuzzy feeling about the state of things without having to be held accountable if it does not work out..... -Vladd
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Post by southpaw13 on Oct 18, 2006 18:45:47 GMT -5
I have to say, I agree with the lack of substance in the message. But on the other hand, it does show a continued support from the actual company, not just the people who work on MW. Get your grubby little forks outta here, MW is not done yet.
I agree that what you don't see in the message is just as important as what you DO see in the message. But all I can say is there is a good reason for the bulk of the information coming in the November chat. Whether you believe me or not, call me a fanboy or not, cuz I'll be happy to admit it I am a fanboy of MW, good things are in store for MW, and it's not based on the sales of Wolf Strike.
This is not MK, and it's not going down like that either.
SP13
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Post by southpaw13 on Oct 18, 2006 18:50:34 GMT -5
And really guys... you talk about them spinning things... y'alls spin to the negative side of things is rather impressive. I know we don't always see eye to eye and you all think I'm WK b***h, but man, you're own spin is really freaking apparent.
This is NOT Mage Knight, and MW IS NOT GOING AWAY. That, I can promise you. But then again, who am I? Just another player like y'all.
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Post by warlord1985 on Oct 18, 2006 19:01:19 GMT -5
We're spinning the negative because thats what we're used to.
Mageknight got the axe after something basically along these lines. We all know about MK.
It would have been nicer if they had actually given us ANY info in the message. They gave nothing. Not a mechs name, not a release schedule, not the color of Jonas's underwear (shudder).
That would have gone a long way to proving to those on the fence that good things were coming. Its like I said in the one thread on Wizkids: PLEASE, PROVE ME WRONG!
Seriously, please prove me wrong.
-W
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emouse
Combat Engineer
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Post by emouse on Oct 18, 2006 20:07:48 GMT -5
Its like I said in the one thread on Wizkids: PLEASE, PROVE ME WRONG! Sure, wait a month. BTW, Joe is a guy that Topps brought in. He has no great attachment to MW other than wanting to get WK profitable for Topps. If he's saying there are plans to keep the line through 2008, that sounds to me like the only thing that'll kill it is if Topps completely ditches WK, which is really unrelated to any of this debate. I think saying that the sky is falling because the future of the line depends on the sales of the current release is really disengenuous. When has that NOT been the case? If any release of MW showed a precarious drop, WK would have killed the line, new expansion or not. They did it with Shadowrun. WK has always had the option of backing off from a release up until they tell the factory to go ahead. In that regard, there is absolutely nothing that is different this time around than any other post-release time in the game's history. The only release that I can think of that might have been saved from this is Domination, since the delay in Annihilation forced the two to be manufactured back-to-back. One of the local places had a supply of Domination boosters that was packed upside-down, just like Annihilation, a sign that they were manufactured before WK had a chance to slap the factory around a little, post-release.
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Post by baw on Oct 19, 2006 6:54:58 GMT -5
I am hopeful but I would have preferred to have more substance to the announcement. Sure I read a lot of the spin that was in the document. Leading statements rather than substance. I am still hopefull for Mechwarrior. There is no doubt in any of minds that if MW tanks really bad that WK/Topps will stop producing it. If people stop buying there shouldn't be a reason to produce it. We need to encourage people to keep buying it. If we start with the attitude and preaching it is going to die.. IT WILL DIE. That is a self fulfilling prophecy! I am glad the gave us some Positive attitude information. I Hope that it carries through to MW forever and ever. I hope they don' t change the game much more. Cards have started overwhelming me Well here's hoping the a glorious future for Mechwarrior. No the announcement wasn't all I was hoping for.
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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 19, 2006 11:38:34 GMT -5
And really guys... you talk about them spinning things... y'alls spin to the negative side of things is rather impressive. I know we don't always see eye to eye and you all think I'm WK b***h, but man, you're own spin is really freaking apparent. Ok, Southpaw lets not start shooting the messenger Firstly, I am not spinning anything. I am simply offering my opinion on what was presented in the press release. The relevent definition of spin is: To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinionIf a wanted to sway public opinion and drive the game out of existance I'd be posting this stuff on the WK site. As I said earlier in this thread, I have no ill will toward my time in MW nor anyone who still is in it, and thats why I have only posted my thoughts here, a not so public forum. (Yeah I know it is still public, but really who comes here other than people we know. ) No one who comes here is going to quit the game because of what I say. As such my opinion is not SPIN, it's just my opinion. There is no agenda, I hope Mech does grow bigger and better in the future. I know at least initially Southpaw and Baw got the point of my post, which is simply the idea that what is not said is sometimes more important then what is said. As for Mageknight, all I can say is that those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, and the environment surrounding this game is exactly the same as the one that surrounded Mageknight in its last days... As for being a WK B***h, that really isn't relevant to this conversation, the Rules Arb is supposed to be a shill! ;D -Vladd
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Post by asburygrad on Oct 25, 2006 12:04:37 GMT -5
At first, I thought I was going to be really, really depressed if they announced the end of MW. But you know, on further reflection, you have to look at the positives: 4 years of gaming in a tough industry. Lots of great memories and excitement. I made some real friends along the way, too.
I think when Dark Age started, most people realized this was going to be a niche game. It's going to end at some point, when WizKids can no longer make it profitable. They even axed their flagship - Mage Knight - when they couldn't make money on it. It is an industry, and things do have to change.
For me personally, playing Mechwarrior has always been about 2 things: the universe, and the people. I love the Battletech and MW universes, and that will not change if this game is cancelled. As for the people - the main reason I picked up MW:DA in the first place was because I couldn't find a single BT player anywhere within two hours' driving distance for a game.
Every now and then, another game grabs my attention for a while. A friend recommended WH 40K; someone else got into Warmachine; people stopped playing MW to jump to LOTR or Star Wars Minis; the attraction of cash prizes for Dreamblade or WOW:TCG is always tough to ignore. But in the end, I have always found people playing MW these last four years, and I have enjoyed playing with them. In my area, there is not a WH or SW player to be found. Venues can't sell Warmachine or LOTR. And we'll see about Dreamblade or WOW.
After moving four months ago, I am now within an hour's drive of three active venues. I have played at these venues on Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays. On those days, the only games getting any attention other than MW were Magic and Vs. Even Heroclix can't find an audience. I know this is specific to my area, which is why I'm mentioning it. Heroclix may be doing great elsewhere, but it's not so hot around here. I think that even if WK cancels MW, these players will keep showing up - so many of them do it just for fun, and could care less about Nats, Worlds, or new sets. They just love the game. That ought to keep them going for a year or two, or maybe longer, even without prize support.
At day's end, it's not much fun to play even the greatest game in the world alone. Board/mini/card games are meant to played in person, and will fail if they don't attract players. To those of you who are already convinced that MW is dead and are already jumping ship - best of luck. I hope you find another great game and great people to play against. For those of us hanging on and waiting to see where MW and it's universe go - cross your fingers! But it's been fun regardless.
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