Ok.. I need to open my Aries up.

[baw]

I haven't even opened them yet. My son told me to keep them closed they are just going to upset me. I could have lived with them if they said they were only 100 tons

I don't like all the rules with them. A couple of players have completely dissed them (probably because of my lack of enthusiasm about them. I told a few of the players I would bring them to show them. They said "don't bother ;P"

I really am going to have to give them a try. I know some people on the board think there is no issues with them but we had some concern at worlds!

[elite130]

Well in 600 they are just near impossible to kill.

In say 750 they are fine I think. 1 Ares must face 2 heavies and the odds are about even then.

But do test them.

[tjpandv]

I had 1 dial loose in the box and had to cut out 3 of the paddles from the pilot cards. Apart from that, they were fine.

I'm running a 900 point unrestricted in a couple of weeks and I hope that a few Ares turn up to see how they play.

I think they will attract a lot of attention in the Store.

I've not given much thought about tactics/army builds. I may think more about trying to kill one if its a 600 point battle.

[baw]

I think they are going to fix the 600 problem It shouldn't be a problem after the next FAQ if they fix it like they indicated. One of the worlds player had a good idea. We shall wait and see if they actually impelement that fix!

[baw]

I guess it isn't going to be this FAQ (they just released on)

Maybe they will make the changes soon!

[tjpandv]

In terms of colour schemes, its got to be Zeus. Hera is too Art Deco and Hades looks like an Andy Warhol gone wrong.

I think the matter boils down to - what sort of a heat dial are you happy to put up with?

Zeus' is terrible - half of the dial is covered in colours and 4 of these are ammo explosions.

Hera's isn't great - a few more colours but only 2 ammo expolsions.

Hades - lacking a second ballistic weapon - only has 1 ammo explosion and far fewer colours. Its the only one not to have a heat effect on the second click.

The issue for me is not only will you have to contend with going down the heat dial (and your opponent will know that the heat dial is your "achilles heel" so to speak), you also have to cope with it when coming back up after a vent/cool. Zeus has a vent of 2, yet has 3 ammo exposions in a row!!

After heat, comes range and damage (I'll not bother with AV and DV - they're pretty similar).

Its here that Hades looses out - not just in reach but in minimum ranges as well. Get within 5 inches, and she'll have to move first to get you or hit you with energy. That's going to hurt if you manage to impede here movement with a couple of infantry bases - if she wants to move ahead, she'll have to deal with these first - she's not fast enough to walk over them.

Hera has a better time of it and Zeus has the best coverage.

Damage values for all 3 are pretty similar and their mix of equipment means they can all deal with most threats. Only Zeus as Arm P which may be a factor. Ares mechs may struggle against Kurita if they can't punch through the black armour.

Hera's Alpha Strike is scary but a 4 turn re-start could mean its her last action of the game!

Hades' Homing Beacon does a LOT for its AV. With the +2 pilot, its a 14 attack.

The heat dial and homing beacon draw me to Hades.

Next up would be Zeus for its Arm P and its inter-locking ranges on all 3 weapons.

Finally, its Hera. Middle of the 2 in most respects.

Now I need some time to think about the crew combos...

[tjpandv]

In the process of revising my MW inventory (and consigning several older pieces to the box of stuff in the attic), I came across the SC Skanda. The stats aren't stellar but the fact that it carries TSEMP got me thinking about the Ares...

Quite a few pieces out there carry TSEMP (DF Mongoose, CNC PH1, CNC Nova Cat and a bunch of Morrigans as well as the aforementioned Skanda and a CJF Skadi). In addition to this, energy-equipped Light Mechs can grab themselves a TSEMP card.

Problem with Mechs and TSEMP is the inability to use it with an assault order (I suppose a second order from a Twin would get around this and there are probably other pilot abilities out there as well.).

This then brings us to the Skanda. The AV on its own is a non-starter but a formation drop with some inf (TGRs or Merc Snipers) will give it a good AV and a decent range - not one that can leave it outside the reach of an Ares but one that will require the Ares to move and probably assault the transports in the same turn. One Ares can't take out both transports so if it does come close, it will almost certainly be within drop range for your next turn and will definately be hot.

Getting the Ares shut down from TSEMP and a follow up from a pulse (12 IT with a +4 for shutdown) should give it something to think about. I know that it gets a re-start, but once you can pin it with TSEMP, it will have a messy heat dial that it can only fix by venting - and that's turn over.

I'm looking at other anti-Ares stuff but thought that TSEMP might bring Ares hunters a quick kill.

[baw]

TSEMP would be ok against the ares. The worst thing about TSEMP is that it gives the opponent a clear token at the beginning of their turn. So you have helped his heat issue a little bit by clearing his token. You had better hit it hard (and often) when it is shut down.

[tjpandv]

Another aspect of the Ares are PCCs. There are some that will limit it's effectiveness and others that will give you a fighting chance. Some need a dice roll, others the right conditions...

1. Desert Wasteland - Will cripple any Ares that takes the Repair Engineer along as part of the crew. No vent order and no cooling during Clean Up.

2 . Corrosive Atmosphere - A sloution to the RHDM problem used on the Ares. Will give 12 IT mechs a good chance of hitting.

3. Underbrush - Likely to make your Kelswa unhittable. With no IT, it drops the Ares AV down by quite a margin.

4. Active Volcanoes/Earthquakes/Mine Field - The Ares player should have fewer pieces to choose from. You may field an army that likes to take damage.

5. Beach - You'll need to go with JJ-equiped mechs but gives the chance to fix the Ares (but it also hands him a lot of water to sit in).

6. Crags - Will negate the Pilot with the Run ability.

I like the first 3. Numbers 4 and 5 really depend upon your army type and 6 is marginal.

Equally, as an Ares Player, I would be looking out for the following:

1. Ice Field - Stops those nasty colours coming into effect when you vent back up the dial.

2. Storm/Swamp - If only to cancel Desert Wasteland. Goes up to No1 position if you have the repair engineer on board.

3. Sub Zero temperatures - Ares need the temperature to be colder than a Penguin's backside.

4. Polar Gale - Bigger Vent rating.

5. Caverns - Stops those nasty POGs.

I would say that the Ares player will always be looking for "defensive" PCCs that allow it to function properly rather than ones that affect the opposition.

[Zxqueb]

That's a good look at the way PCs interact with the ares.

A couple points:

Active volcanoes / E /MF: I tend to use active a lot. Not only will it mess up the ares, it hurts the crazy multiple mech armies that we tend to see in these parts. It's also nice that it isn't cancelled by anything except perfect day (iirc).

Corrosive atmophere -- I guess I don't see this as hurting the ares. Even on it's best day, it's not all that difficult to hit and barring a rules FAQ, most people will be running it without +1 defense in 600.

Caverns: I guess I'm the only one who things pogs are a non-issue for the ares. It just moves away each turn which means your artillery will pound on nothing. Big deal.

Polar gale is really good as is subzero -- I'd put those above storm and ice field for importance.

My $.02,
Z

[baw]

Actually against the ares with a Multipog unit.. You want to deny where it can go rather than trying to hit it dead on. I haven't played against one yet but with artillery to limit its movement choices... The arty might be useful.

[RoyalScion]

You'd need some serious amounts of artillery to actually threaten an Ares a lot, due to the steady dials and the repair engineer though.... Although in larger point games (Where you can use an Ares) you could feasibly do it. But then again, that would make you weak to Light Mech Swarm armies....

[tjpandv]

baw said:

Actually against the ares with a Multipog unit.. You want to deny where it can go rather than trying to hit it dead on. I haven't played against one yet but with artillery to limit its movement choices... The arty might be useful.

I think denying the Ares room to manouvre is where arty comes into the battle. Making the Ares move in the first instance is no bad thing - he may want to sit there and cool down. Shaping the battlefield in such a way means multi-POGs or several singletons.

In unrestricted, the Paladins and Long Toms have the reach and the Arrows have the accuracy. Even the Padillas can join in. Snipers bring accuracy and big blast radii to party but lack the multi POG ability (hello, we have a Mr Medchelke on the line... .
Once again, the Danai Support Vehicle just misses out ( ) - never mind...

Once you bring in set retirement, we're down to Single POG Hadurs, SM2s and Centaurs and, of course, TTLs. I can't see any of these threatening the Ares to any extent. The TTLs range is inside the Ares move/shoot ability and they lack Arm P. However, thanks to the base size of the Ares, they are pretty much auto hit.

The other problem with arty is that, apart from the super long -ranged pieces, the Ares (with a 4, 6 or 8 inch move and a 16-17 inch assault) will be upon them in no time and will be able to target the arty (and any nearby support?) and get itself easy VC1 points. Hera's Streak Missiles are looking a good bet for taking out a pair of TTLs in 1 turn.

Anyway, if the FAQ comes in, Ares will be for unrestricted/bigger point events and won't affect the tourney scene too much.

[asburygrad]

tjpandv said:

I'm looking at other anti-Ares stuff but thought that TSEMP might bring Ares hunters a quick kill.

All TSEMP does, really, is lower the target's DV by 4 for the remainder of your turn. That is useful, of course. But I don't think it's necessary for anti-Ares play. Don't they max out at about 23 D?

Against SP, TSEMP is beautiful - denying Decoy and Evade, and reducing the D even further. But against an Ares, I think it's helpful but not necessary.

(Scary thought about playing TSEMP on the Twins, by the way . . .)

[tjpandv]

Played a few 900 point unrestricted games with Ares yesterday and the results were quite interesting. I took the 3 Ares along as very few people have them. The Ares were powerful, but not game-breaking. A lot of them died and the winner ran 2 mechs, TD and arty so they didn't even win the event.

Overall, they looked impressive on the table and drew quite a bit of comment from the other gamers in the store.

The yellow/red one (Hera?) got to use TSEMP an awful lot and used an Enyo drop to keep the damage going. With the pilot that allows you to damage the same target twice, it proved to be pretty effective. On top of this, it carried a pair of WH TGRs to make a formation shot.

Zeus' heat dial was a lot better than I thought - ammo jams and energy weapons offline are staggered so it still gets to use one of its big weapons quite a way down the dial. This one ran with the variable targetting pilot (so-so) and the variable vent engineer (pretty impressive, esp when it was sat in water and got 4 clicks of cooling in 1 turn!). This one was supported by a WH Jackalope which helped to keep it going a little longer.

The white one (Hades?) was OK but suffered from a low damage on its ballistic weapon (the one with Anti Pers).

When the Ares went down, they were usually shut down and took 10-15 clicks in 1 turn. The shut downs were usually from the players getting greedy with orders and not knowing the heat dials.

So, a thoroughly enjoyable set of games where the Ares proved tough but not unbeatable. In 900, your opponent can bring a force that can take on the Ares but isn't so specialised that it suffers against other build types.