|
|
Post by asburygrad on Nov 9, 2006 11:05:46 GMT -5
I'm already thinking about next year's US Nats and Worlds competitions, and I want to start practicing with armies that I might actually use there. For this practice, I am playing with no pieces older than Annihilation, and trying to use Annihilation pieces only in limited numbers since the top competitions may restrict that set as well.
Looking at pieces and CECs from Domination forward (Vanguard, Wolf Strike, and Battleforce sets), I noticed several important changes from the current state of the game. First, without Saviors and Combat Techs, there won't be much repair except from pilot abilities and FP/SA/SQ cards. Second, the PC Urban would be out, since it's from the Firepower set, so tankdrop would be almost completely dead with Rocky Terrain in play - only PD would cancel it, and only for one round. Of course, no artillery without AoD or Firepower, but we knew that one already. One last interesting thing - there would be only 8 PCs from Dom and 8 PCs from WS (I assume Outlaws will probably have PCs as well, but we'll see). Most of those 16 PCs will be very hard to cancel when they come into play, since in many cases their "cancellers" are in an earlier set.
Will WizKids extend the restriction to Pilots and Gear as well? I'm not sure they would, but that would also mean big changes. No Ryohara, Stark, or DeJesus for heavies. No Fernali for assaults. No IT for lights or heavies, and suddenly mediums are the only class with both IT and Decoy (unless lights got IT back in a set after AoD).
With or without CEC restriction, I think we can see a peak at the future in the top 2 armies at Worlds. Both had a heavy Mech, a lighter Mech (though one was medium class), and supporting infantry. This is what I consider the current "standard" for army builds: one heavy or assault, plus one medium or light, plus supporting infantry (with or without a transport).
My question is this: what sort of army can be constructed with the set restrictions above, that breaks that "standard" army mold? Assuming that tankdrop is out due to RT, that doesn't leave too many options. I see three possibilities:
1. Light Mech swarm - don't know how the loss of light IT will affect this
2. Dropping one of the two Mechs for massed infantry
2. Dropping one of the two Mechs for Gossamer VTOLs
One final possibility, which I've never really tried, is tankdrop in a completely supporting role. Could you take a Skanda, Carnivore, or maybe even a WH Kelswa in a Dom R10, assume that you will face RT, and still make use of those points? Maybe it could wipe out infantry and stop VC3-grabbers, but is that worth the cost?
We have no idea right now about Outlaws, and pieces/CECs from that set could change everything. But from my perspective, practice with Dom-WS armies will not hurt. It will help me familiarize myself with the current pieces and strategies, and be better prepared for the big games next year. You really can't get started too early, especially for someone with no experience at that level - like me!
|
|
|
|
Post by elite130 on Nov 9, 2006 11:59:23 GMT -5
I would first like to know what the rules are going to be for Nationals, Europeans and Worlds.
Restricted, unrestricted etc. You are alread assuming some sets will not be included. do you know something ?
Untill that issue is resolved I am focusing on things like sealed.....
We will see.
And when we know you can plan for Worlds without knowing what Outlaw and later sets will bring.
I have enough problem with the here and now and built AoD onwards. Untill I know better. Set unretirement says to me a strategy that future sets will not be ruled out so to say. So it will add more and more options. I am assuming AoD onwards as it is a cohesive set of rules.
start early sure but focus more on building something like 3 armies every week for 3 formats and make sure you figure out whta the best ones are.
We will see, and good luck.
Regards
Elite130
|
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on Nov 9, 2006 13:59:53 GMT -5
Wow, that is an impressive analysis of the potential gaps and wholes that may well appear over the next 6-8 months.
I'd never considered some of the CECs going - I'd always assumed that if I didn't get my Heavy IT from the latest set, I could always use my old one as they apply this principle to some of the reprinted figures from older sets. It had never occurred to me that, unless there is a heavy IT some time soon, then the option just disappears - ouch!
As RISC equipment is taking up a number of the gear slots, then there has been a reduction in the numbers of normal gear being produced. If this trend continues, then there will be fewer and fewer opportunities to re-issue some of the first CECs.
Its certainly one to watch and the situation with mediums with their IT and decoy would be a real turn around.
I'll have to think this one over but I'm off to run a War College event at the local air base...
|
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on Nov 10, 2006 11:12:51 GMT -5
You are alread assuming some sets will not be included. do you know something ?  I know nothing at all, Elite! lol I'm basing this assumption purely on WizKids' past rules for Worlds, where 2005 restricted a few sets (DA through DFA, IIRC) and 2006 restricted up through Falcon's Prey. There's no telling what the new Rules Arbitrator will come up with for 2007. This is true, of course. We have no idea what Outlaws will bring. But I want to get as much real practice in as possible. For me, this is the main point: 2007 Nats and Worlds might restrict everything before Domination. That would seem to be the smallest possible pool of pieces to draw from (in other words, I don't think they will restrict Dom or anything later). Therefore, I am going to primarily use only pieces from Domination forward. The secondary point is to consider, if only for a moment, what the MW landscape looks like if everything before Dom is restricted. I'm not going to hold myself to that landscape in every single game, but it will be in the back of my mind. Also, just in my own analysis, if certain builds look like they would perform better than others in that landscape, I am going to play them in games now, in order to practice with the pieces and get to know them better. For example, I might run Headmaster in a tournament with the BR FP (which is from AoD). I want to take advantage of its lack of repair markers. In a Dom-forward landscape, though, BR FP is out. But running Headmaster (which is from a BF set and therefore legal) in any type of army will give me more experience with that figure, which will help me no matter the landscape. When I go to a storyline tournament with a good prize (i.e. Buford in December) on the line, I am going to open up my collection and use whatever pieces I think will help me win the scenario. One question for you, Elite: If heavies lost IT, what would become of your dual Mech, 16-range army? Can it work with something other than Alpha (WH Thor or a Warwolf), and without IT? |
|
|
|
Post by elite130 on Nov 10, 2006 15:15:32 GMT -5
Ill probaly swith to mediums.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zxqueb on Nov 15, 2006 12:19:14 GMT -5
First, without Saviors and Combat Techs, there won't be much repair except from pilot abilities and FP/SA/SQ cards. I don't know -- there is a pretty freaking awesome repair tech in the new ares pack. 9 attack! Thank you may I have another. Well..no, I guess not.. They are unique. You think so? I'm not sure. Tank drop is much to strong against big mech. I'd wager that you'll still see a bunch of TD as a secondary threat, ESPECIALLY in big tournaments where your opponents can only be holding one. |
|
|
|
Post by southpaw13 on Nov 21, 2006 23:01:22 GMT -5
I don't know -- there is a pretty freaking awesome repair tech in the new ares pack. 9 attack! Thank you may I have another. Well..no, I guess not.. They are unique. Actually, it's a 10 attack to start I know nothing at all, Elite! lol I'm basing this assumption purely on WizKids' past rules for Worlds, where 2005 restricted a few sets (DA through DFA, IIRC) and 2006 restricted up through Falcon's Prey. There's no telling what the new Rules Arbitrator will come up with for 2007. There's a new Rules Arbitrator? whoah... no one told me.... explains a few things!  SP13 |
|
|
|
Post by elite130 on Nov 22, 2006 8:10:17 GMT -5
Errrr I bought the poseidon, just for the infantery........
I do hope that Mike will be Top Rules guy again soon. Care to hint what rules will be in effect or is there achance it will be the new "format" ?
No doubt you arent allowed to say much...... Still we wonder.
I do hope we get the annouccement months in advance and also if you dont want rules/piece banning requests from players have a freeze for making availbale new pieces/rules changes again prefferable months in advance.
No critism on your part big Mike, more on WK policy towards big events and by jove I hope they will put up some webspace for it. I mean no mention also it is bad marketing.....
Regards
E130
|
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on Jan 30, 2007 9:51:07 GMT -5
I was just re-reading this thread and I think, before I go on, I'd like to make a couple of assumptions:
1. That the available sets for top level events will be AoD onwards and is therefore likely to include any "action pack" release that takes place over the next few months.
2. There will be no major MW "set release" over the coming year. This means no new CECs or game mechanics.
OK, these aren't 100% and its only just a year since the Twins were in town, so anything can happen.
So, if we look at the top choices, I have tried to factor in their respective vulnerabilities or strengths when it comes to PCCs. Lets take a 4 round event where you can play a max of 3 PCCs and 1 mission. If we accept that 1 PCC is Perfect Day, then that leaves you with a maximum of 2 PCCs to choose from:
Peacemaker and Evade-Equipped Llights.
MUST CANCEL - Constant Tremors (Preserve P Defence).
MOST USEFUL - Caverns (takes out the atillery threat).
SAD RHDM.
MUST CANCEL - Magnetic Storm (Preserve Decoy).
MOST USEFUL - Dust Storm (prevents charges and lowers ranges into SAD's own range).
Jack/Julz and Shooter
MUST CANCEL - Barrens, Jungle, Craters (all of which remove blocking to some degree).
MOST USEFUL - Mountain Range, Urban, Caverns, Magnetic Depositis (Maintain blocking or prevent indirect fire from opponent (esp Yami Shiro) or increase DV against indirect fire).
HK/HL CC Army
MUST CANCEL - Crags (prevents the run/charge into CC).
MOST USEFUL - Dust Storm (lowers ranges).
Whilst Jack and Julz is the most vulnerable to PCCs that remove blocking (and effectively make Jack a very expensive so-so mech), it can also cripple an opponent by taking cards that maintain blocking terrain. However, I see this as a defensive move and one that won't allow a J+J army to take more that the 1 mission.
The HK/HL army seems the least dependant on PCCs and could therefore opt for an increase in missions. I think the popular choice for fast lights will also mean that Crags won't be that common.
If Peacemaker can cancel CT, then it also has the option to go on the offensive with missions or perhaps taking a PCC that would add to its relatively low DVs (eg Magnetic Storm).
The SAD army only has the 1 PCC to worry about and even then (unlike Peacemaker) a lack of decoy won't cripple the army. I think Dust Storm will be of immense benefit and allow SAD to get in close or force her opponent's to do likewise.
So, SAD and the HK/HL builds win it for me. I'm pretty sure that over a 4 round event, you can't guarantee cancelling everyone's PCCs. Also, being able to score extra VCs for missions is a big boost in a larger event.
|
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on Jan 31, 2007 11:15:20 GMT -5
So, SAD and the HK/HL builds win it for me. I'm pretty sure that over a 4 round event, you can't guarantee cancelling everyone's PCCs. Also, being able to score extra VCs for missions is a big boost in a larger event. Very good points. I'd like to add that both SAD and HK/HL builds like Dust Storm, which lots of other armies hate. Ironically, I think the HK/HL build is a great counter to SAD. So the SAD player may want to leave Dust Storm in hand when facing HK/HL; although they won't be able to charge, neither will SAD or Jack, and Kuro Ha and YLW both prefer CC AOs anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by brinxter on Jan 31, 2007 15:14:18 GMT -5
SAD has one more PCC to be mindfull of, Corrosive Atmosphere - wich limits the defense to 23. This is after every other modifier has been added, it just drops down to 23. So with 12 IT, 11 twice.. thats a little bit to easy tbh And a usefull PCC, Heavy Fog, hey another +1 to your defense never hurts!  |
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on Feb 2, 2007 9:24:05 GMT -5
SAD has one more PCC to be mindfull of, Corrosive Atmosphere - wich limits the defense to 23. This is after every other modifier has been added, it just drops down to 23. So with 12 IT, 11 twice.. thats a little bit to easy tbh And a usefull PCC, Heavy Fog, hey another +1 to your defense never hurts! Good point about the Corrosive Atmosphere. If SAD is going to be THAT popular, then this card should be seen as a must have at an event. I assume that Corrosive Atmosphere will also limit the DVs of any evade-equipped light mechs that are using Peacemaker's PD? Probably a better card than Constant Tremors in that case as iy can be used against 2 army builds. |
|
|
|
Post by brinxter on Feb 2, 2007 10:56:44 GMT -5
Indeed, Corrosive Atmosphere is usefull for a lot of army's
Since no matter what you do, like Indirecting after an assault, through hindering while heavy fog is in play and still only have to deal with a 23 max defense.
So yes, Peacemaker with "twin" light mechs is affected as much as SAD.
|
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on Feb 2, 2007 11:39:29 GMT -5
Indeed, Corrosive Atmosphere is usefull for a lot of army's Since no matter what you do, like Indirecting after an assault, through hindering while heavy fog is in play and still only have to deal with a 23 max defense. So yes, Peacemaker with "twin" light mechs is affected as much as SAD. And a PCC that is unlikely to affect either the HK/HL CC army or a Jack/Julz build... |
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on Feb 2, 2007 13:01:08 GMT -5
Yep, I do think Corrosive beats Tremors. I'm not planning on playing either build any time soon though . . .
Out of curiosity (and nearly on-topic, lol) - which do you think is easier in tournament play: keeping blocking terrain in play, or getting rid of it? In other words, is it easier for armies running Jack to keep that needed blocking, or is it easier for anti-Jack armies to clear it (change it to hindering or water, remove all terrain, etc)?
|
|
