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Post by asburygrad on Dec 6, 2006 13:03:53 GMT -5
I usually don't get to play in ranked tournaments more than once per month, but December is going to be different. I will be trying to make it out to 5-7 venues this month, all for 600-point constructed ranked events.
With that in mind, I came up with 4 different armies, which are all based around popular, top-tier pieces used in the last few US Nats and Worlds events. In some cases, I don't have much experience with the army type, and in all cases I tweaked the army to my particular tastes. I list these in order of overall "power" (in my opinion, of course):
#1. World Champ's army:
SP w/ Ryohara + Decoy
Jack w/ LE Jules + Decoy
3 NC Clan BA
3 NC ATVs
True Grit
600 pts
I am really tempted to take IT instead of Decoy on Ryohara; an 11 attack without IT just seems too low for me. To make up the points, I'm planning on switching Jack's Decoy to Plasma Gun. Total points: 598.
#2.
WH Thor w/ DeJesus + IT
Jack w/ LE Jules
Merc Zahn w/ 2 WH TGR
3 WH Minigun Cycles
BR Peasant Company (or Hi one if I have one)
True Grit
599 points
An army of my own creation, which I've won a number of games with. Last time, I recruited Jack to a faction just to burn points, but I think the Peasant Company will serve me better.
#3.
Peacemaker w/ Randall + Coolant Pod
2 WH Mjolnir w/ 2 Goshen Grads
2 ROTS ATVs
True Grit
598 points
An imitation of Alien Jake's 2nd place US Nats army, with an extra Mjolnir to make up the point difference.
#4.
Black Rose + Fernali (maybe Findlay?)
WH Mjolnir w/ Grapple
WH MHI APC w/ 2 HS TTLs
2 HK ATVs
CJF Sylph
True Grit
I'd like to get a pilot into the Mjolnir. Maybe dropping the HK ATVs or the Sylph, and adding gear to BR? I like the potential to grapple something with the Mjolnir and pog it with the HS TTLs, letting the Mjolnir's Reactive armor prevent the damage.
One general comment: in the local venues I frequent, nearly everyone plays a FP card. Hence the use of TG in all four armies.
Let me know what you think; all comments welcome!
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Post by elite130 on Dec 6, 2006 13:10:37 GMT -5
Learn the 600 rule....
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Post by warlord1985 on Dec 6, 2006 14:27:53 GMT -5
And what the hell is the 600 rule? I didn't know there was one. |
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Post by asburygrad on Dec 6, 2006 14:53:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I know. But these will be local tournaments. Still, I will keep tinkering and try to get to 600 . . . What are your thoughts on dropping the True Grit? |
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Post by brinxter on Dec 6, 2006 15:01:01 GMT -5
And what the hell is the 600 rule? I didn't know there was one. If you dont play an army thats exactly the point limit you start the game "losing on points" wich means the other player can just wait you out if he wants to. It's the same thing when playing with an FP or S/A card, since they dont really count towards VC2. So when you play 599 points you have to make up for it with agression... wich doesnt always pay out  |
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Post by brinxter on Dec 6, 2006 15:27:22 GMT -5
#1. World Champ's army: SP w/ Ryohara + Decoy Jack w/ LE Jules + Decoy 3 NC Clan BA 3 NC ATVs True Grit 600 pts I generally dislike like armys like this, since it revolves around your opponent missing his shots... Since i'm Dutch i'm obliged to put IT on anything i play (and have an "easy" way of getting to 13IT so i generaly dont miss), and put in TTLs for stuff like SP. #2. WH Thor w/ DeJesus + IT Jack w/ LE Jules Merc Zahn w/ 2 WH TGR 3 WH Minigun Cycles BR Peasant Company (or Hi one if I have one) True Grit 599 points Perhaps this works better? WH Thor 204 - Dejesus 33 - IT 44 Jack 149 - LE Julez 33 - BAP 35 M Zahn 30 - BR TGR 57 ROTS ATV 15 With Julz and Bap you have 1x 13IT, 1x 12 and 3x 9IT and get to ignore blocking. Basers wont be to much of a problem, providing people dont bring more then 3-4 of them. The only thing i can see as an obvious weak point is that you lack energy attacks, wich are sometimes much more usefull. #3. Peacemaker w/ Randall + Coolant Pod 2 WH Mjolnir w/ 2 Goshen Grads 2 ROTS ATVs True Grit 598 points Cant comment on this one really, read comments on army #1 #4. Black Rose + Fernali (maybe Findlay?) WH Mjolnir w/ Grapple WH MHI APC w/ 2 HS TTLs 2 HK ATVs CJF Sylph True Grit I can see where you're going with the TTLs and grapple Mjolnir but i cant see this army really working... One general comment: in the local venues I frequent, nearly everyone plays a FP card. Hence the use of TG in all four armies. Thats a good starting point, however i rather like "i start at 600 you at 580" a lot more While there are a few FP's - S/A's out there that are really usefull and worth playing it still means they have to come to you, wich means they make mistakes more easily and run hotter. |
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Post by warlord1985 on Dec 6, 2006 16:05:15 GMT -5
And what the hell is the 600 rule? I didn't know there was one. If you dont play an army thats exactly the point limit you start the game "losing on points" wich means the other player can just wait you out if he wants to. It's the same thing when playing with an FP or S/A card, since they dont really count towards VC2. So when you play 599 points you have to make up for it with agression... wich doesnt always pay out Oh, well that is pretty much an unspoken rule. I didn't know people didn't abide by it. And theres only so many combinations you can make to get a perfect 600. |
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Post by vladdswrath on Dec 6, 2006 17:28:53 GMT -5
I never use that rule...Of course I play Dreamblade with 15 figure warbands, so what do I know...
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Post by tjpandv on Dec 7, 2006 5:24:16 GMT -5
SP without a formation shot will not crack other RHDMs that you might come across. Also, you'll have to take True Grit and this build will put you 20 points down. If you don't take decoy on SP, then IT just drags it back into the "very good heavy mech" class, along with several others. So, yes to SP, but only with a supporting drop. I also think that Jack needs a longer-ranged heavy to best make use if the Fwd Observer ability. I like the WH Thor and Jack/Julz. BAP can give you a real edge but decoy should allow Jack to last longer (getting within 6 inches of your opponent can be a one-way trip). As much as I like Black Rose, that glass jaw really bites you after and its a huge points investment. By the way, I can't belive that Elite's posted on this thread and hasn't mentioned Alpha...  For me, Jack plus a long ranged heavy with IT is a good combo. Even without blocking terrain, the WH Thor or Alpha both have huge assault ranges. PCCs such a Perfect Day and Urban should keep your blocking in place. Jack, WH Thor and Merc FP can also make your opponent's eyes water... Did you ever test the HK/Liao SA army? A lot of points for the SA but it screams for the Black Blade and Centurion combo. Good luck on your quest. Let us know how you get on. |
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Post by Zxqueb on Dec 7, 2006 10:08:56 GMT -5
600 "rule" is largely unimportant, in my opinion. An army's synergy is more important than being at 600 on the button. I'd much rather start down a bit with the units / gear that I want in a build than sacrifice something key to hit 600.
But then I'm not one to avoid engagement.
I agree with TJPandV's comment that taking out decoy negates the goodness that is Marc's army. Besides, you have a 12 attack with Jack's ability and an 11 behind blocking is still really freaking good.
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Post by brinxter on Dec 7, 2006 11:11:29 GMT -5
Did you ever test the HK/Liao SA army? A lot of points for the SA but it screams for the Black Blade and Centurion combo. I did test it, its a really really fun army to play. Its kinda good against everything and not really vulnerable to anything. This is because not alot of people play with basescreens anymore, or so i believe. When the opposing player has enough cheap infantry to prevent you from basing his mech you could be in for trouble... |
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Post by asburygrad on Dec 7, 2006 11:17:53 GMT -5
Perhaps this works better? WH Thor 204 - Dejesus 33 - IT 44 Jack 149 - LE Julez 33 - BAP 35 M Zahn 30 - BR TGR 57 ROTS ATV 15 With Julz and Bap you have 1x 13IT, 1x 12 and 3x 9IT and get to ignore blocking. Basers wont be to much of a problem, providing people dont bring more then 3-4 of them. The only thing i can see as an obvious weak point is that you lack energy attacks, wich are sometimes much more usefull. Yeah, this looks a lot better. I forgot about the BR TGRs being so much cheaper than the WH ones. And the army does have an energy attack - just not a very powerful one. Don't know how to fix that, with the WH Thor being so central to the build. I could try NC T-birds in place of the TGRs . . . but then, they can't shoot through blocking. So there are positives and negatives to both ideas. |
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Post by asburygrad on Dec 7, 2006 11:21:04 GMT -5
Forgot to say "thanks" to everyone for posting. Very helpful comments all!
@ brinxter and tjpandv: I really like the "synergy" of the HK/HL SA with Yen Lo Wang and Kuro Ha, but the relatively low starting attack values still bother me. How easy was it to hit in practice from your experience? On paper, it looks like you have formation possibilities with infantry, but that can be tricky to set up.
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Post by asburygrad on Dec 7, 2006 12:30:13 GMT -5
#4. Black Rose + Fernali (maybe Findlay?) WH Mjolnir w/ Grapple WH MHI APC w/ 2 HS TTLs 2 HK ATVs CJF Sylph True Grit Thinking on this build last night, I did come up with a major modification: Black Rose w/ Fernali WH Mjolnir w/ Goshen Grad and Grapple Merc Zahn w/ 2 HS TTLs 2 NC ATVs HK ATV HS Sylph BA 600 points even. Lots more basers. Lots more Grapple. Still may not be top tier by any means . . . but should be fun! |
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Post by elite130 on Dec 7, 2006 15:33:57 GMT -5
Explanation.
Why 600 points ?
Why built armies in a certain way ?
Whenever I built an army it has the following purposses.
1 to win.
2 Scenario
3 Fun
If you ask me advice on 3 well everything goes.
However an scenario in my book is easy to built towards.
1 building an army to win is ussualy what I assume the case if people ask me for advice.
As Brinxter knows from me, I see the whole execise as a preparation to take on the world championships. Every time again. So every army must be perfect or as close to perfection as possible.
Zqueb made a point that maybe thatisnt possible I only admit that for MR but even then the time and effort in getting that 1 extra point was made to the extreme.
The execise to defeat some venue is a too forgiving one. The execise to beat the best is akin to to a mentality. I always try to instill that and Brinsters knows I do he sometimes must be assured I am a madman but then again it works....
Regards
E130
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