|
Post by tjpandv on Apr 30, 2007 10:47:45 GMT -5
Guys, about 6 weeks to run before the UK Nats take place. They're going to be Faction Pure this year (and its likely that the Ares will be banned). I was wondering how the current builds would fare in a FP environment? At the same time, is there a Faction out there that stands out with a good array of pieces?
As for builds, the choices seems to be:
Jack + Shooter
RHDM (Peacemaker/SAD)
Hammerfall Zombie
Double Drop
As for factions, some can make use of an alliance which adds to the choice.
Mercenary - a good choice for Jack using a WH Thor or a GS mech?
Kurita - Kaminari and Jack are expensive but very potent.
Bannson's - the FP is one of the strongest there and allows Hammerfall to be used very effectively. Aside from this, Thug, the Solis and Vixens make for a very solid choice of mechs. A little limited elsewhere, however.
Davion - A re-roll FP, access to TTLs, TGRs and ATVs, good Padillas and those excellent Purifier BA.
Jade Falcon - great if they hit first but they can fold like a pack of cards if they don't hit. My own Clan, but I'm not sure if they can hack it at this level.
Nova Cat - those great Nova Cat mechs, ATVs and some good infantry.
Clan Wolf/SW - an amazing choice of long range mechs - some of the best out there in nearly every class. CW lack the inf support and SW only have Aplha.
ROTS - Peacemaker I guess.
Steiner - those TTLs alone are almost enough just to want me to take this faction!
I have been thinking of the following:
Jack + Shooter combo using these sort of options:
A SW/CW using Alpha - poor choice of support.
A SW/CNC SA (energy and ballistic swap) using a Nova Cat. Better support but still limited.
A Merc FP using a WH Thor or "Tremor".
A HS build using some random mech (probably recruited). Gives me access to TTLs.
A Kurita build using Kaminari.
I Think my son Tom will be taking a BR build with Thug and a reapir Vixen so that does leave me with the Hammerfall/SU streaks/repair option.
Any suggestions or comments will be most welcome.
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on May 2, 2007 10:02:20 GMT -5
A SW/CNC SA (energy and ballistic swap) using a Nova Cat. Better support but still limited. One of the best possible uses of the SW/NC SA. But I'm not sure it will actually work. Does the shooter need to have a ballistic weapon on the dial to gain the benefit from Jack's ability, or just be capable of making a ballistic attack? I'm not saying you're wrong on this one. But I'd make absolutely certain about it before taking it to a high-level tournament.
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on May 2, 2007 15:31:19 GMT -5
A SW/CNC SA (energy and ballistic swap) using a Nova Cat. Better support but still limited. One of the best possible uses of the SW/NC SA. But I'm not sure it will actually work. Does the shooter need to have a ballistic weapon on the dial to gain the benefit from Jack's ability, or just be capable of making a ballistic attack? I'm not saying you're wrong on this one. But I'd make absolutely certain about it before taking it to a high-level tournament. Good point. The Rules of presidence say that its PCs first, FP, Merc Contracts and SAs next, then gear and then pilots. So, the SA is in play before we get to any pilot ability. The SA wording is: "If the damage value's range type is ballistic, it becomes energy and vice versa. Ignore all damage SE." The Forward Observer clear LOS for fire purposes when making a RCA using the ballistic damage type. I'd like to think that the Order of Preference and the wording would allow Jack/Julz to clear a LOS for a energy mech when this SA is in force. There are a couple of other SAs that I've been looking at. I don't normally play these but as it is a FP event, there's a good chance that most players will be 20 points down on their own FP or TG. CW/HS - gives armour piercing to 1 piece. Could be a Warwolf or even Hammerfall recruited to CW. So Hammerfall could be: Hammerfall/Fernali (CW recruit)/Imp Tracking or ER Ammo. CW/CJF - add +1 AV if attacking a heavy or assault mech with a printed points value greater than yours. Would give Alpha a possible 13IT or recruit the Twins to CW and they end up with a 13 AV against these mechs. The SC/DF one has always tempted me but the choice of support is not good.
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on May 2, 2007 19:13:48 GMT -5
Glad to know that the SA/Jack combination would work! I just wanted to make sure. CW/HS - gives armour piercing to 1 piece. Could be a Warwolf or even Hammerfall recruited to CW. So Hammerfall could be: Hammerfall/Fernali (CW recruit)/Imp Tracking or ER Ammo. CW/CJF - add +1 AV if attacking a heavy or assault mech with a printed points value greater than yours. Would give Alpha a possible 13IT or recruit the Twins to CW and they end up with a 13 AV against these mechs. These are both interesting suggestions. But I would recruit Hammerfall to HS - I can't think of a single HS Mech I would take at a serious event! lol
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on May 3, 2007 10:06:17 GMT -5
I agree about HS and their selection of Mechs but by recruiting Hammerfall to CW, I can use the rest of the points for the TTLs drop and then some inf to fill in. I suppose Hammerfall's really comes into his own when it comes to repair. The Headmaster is an interesting alternative - only 1 Rep Marker and some good ranges and a friendlier heat dial. Perhaps he would be a cheaper alternative and almost as good? The Echo 01 could be another candidate for the SC/SW SA but I think its more the pilot's damage-reducing ability than the mech itself that appeals. The Nova Cats have the range and IT and are cheaper. Coming back to more traditional FPs, the Kurita +1 damage when backing up a Shiro and Kuro Ha would be another one to contemplate. Kaminari/Tadashi/IT Kuro Ha/Tormark/BAP 3 x HK ATVs Raiden BA Combat Tech HK FP Another build that will never work for me as I get the roles all wrong for Player 1 is this one: WH Vixen, JP Millhew/C3i WH Vixen, Minoru Kurita/C3i WH Vixen, Minoru Kurita/C3i 4 x HD Purifier BA 4 x HD ATVs Davion Merc Contract Everyone gets to infiltrate and the ATVs and the Vixens can all first strike. The Purifiers will be threatening the opp’s DZ at the start of turn 2. I’d love to add in the Davion re-roll FP but the support gets whittled away too much. More thinking to do but I've got a day off work tomorrow so I can go and watch a game of cricket...
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on May 4, 2007 10:44:04 GMT -5
WH Vixen, JP Millhew/C3i WH Vixen, Minoru Kurita/C3i WH Vixen, Minoru Kurita/C3i 4 x HD Purifier BA 4 x HD ATVs Davion Merc Contract Everyone gets to infiltrate and the ATVs and the Vixens can all first strike. The Purifiers will be threatening the opp’s DZ at the start of turn 2. I’d love to add in the Davion re-roll FP but the support gets whittled away too much. Without the FP, though, the Merc Contract is useless. WH units can make formations with any faction anyway - so you gain no benefit from the contract.
|
|
|
Post by Zxqueb on May 4, 2007 11:08:24 GMT -5
I think he has to run the contract due to the faction pure requirement. It may be better to put pilots in the mechs that can be recruited. You will be able to get to the full build total rather than starting down.
Z
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on May 5, 2007 16:15:01 GMT -5
I think he has to run the contract due to the faction pure requirement. It may be better to put pilots in the mechs that can be recruited. You will be able to get to the full build total rather than starting down. Z That's the problem with the format - its FP, so I'm assuming that - rather like the Faction War, any mercs or WH pieces fighting alongside a faction will have to be recruited to that faction. I take your point about recruiting Gunslingers and not being 20 pts down and that's something I'll have to look at. To be honest, the WH Vixen/C3i build is just a thought and it relies too heavily on the fact that your opponent doesn't see the first strike coming. Maybe the ROTS/Liao SA may work a little better. out of base formation fire and C3i in turn 1...Even then, 3 damage won't even make a scratch on hardened armour. I've just learnt that the Ares will be allowed so should that be considered as an option or should I build to take one out?
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on May 6, 2007 19:29:28 GMT -5
I've just learnt that the Ares will be allowed so should that be considered as an option or should I build to take one out? I would always build to take one out. But the main reason is because it is a tactically boring piece with no surprises - not because it's a weak unit. I hate it when my opponent knows exactly what I'm going to do before I act.
|
|
|
Post by elite130 on May 7, 2007 15:33:47 GMT -5
Faction purirty is a must huh. My money is is on Bansons.
Sillyness, i wish i could fly over and kick some butt.
Good luck TJ and Tom.
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on May 14, 2007 10:59:31 GMT -5
I’m narrowing the field down for army builds. Still a lot to choose from but here’s what I have so far:
Jack Shooter Army #1
WH Thor/De Jesus/IT Jack/LE Julz 3 x Va WH CBA 1 x WH Simian BA 1 x Merc SBA 1 x WH Wraith BA Merc FP
Merc FP is the key but can be out-shot by a Yami.
Jack Shooter Army #2
Alpha/Kerensky/IT Jack/LE Julz/CW Recruit/Mech Repair CW Padilla 4 x CW SRM Teams
More long range firepower with the AAMS on the Padilla also helping out and using Jack as an emergency repair mech on Alpha.
Hammerfall
Hamerfall/Fernali/BR Recruit/SU Streaks Vixen/Goshen/Repair BR Faction Pride (Repair) 2 x Shock Troopers Purifier BA
I’m not a fan of the X Axis as I always fail my heat rolls! and I do like the agility on the Vixen
Kurita
Yami/Tadaki/IT Kuro Ha/Tormark/Brawling 4 x HK Raiden BA HK FP (+1 Damage)
Not much to this army but 2 powerful mechs. Should give an Ares a hard time if Kuro Ha can hold it up while Yami Pounds it at long range.
TTL Army #1
Onslaught/Killick/HS Recruit/IT MH1 APC 2 x TTL Bishop VTOL Carnivore Tank 5 x Minigun Cycles
I’d love to take a TTL drop and going Steiner FP is the best way of doing it. Unfortunately, their own mechs are pretty poor and I don’t have the depth of figures.
TTL Army #2
CW Thor/Krensky/IT HS Bishop 2 x HS TTLs HS CT 2x HS SRM Teams 2 x CW Padillas CW/HS SA
The Padillas form an AAMS umbrella around the Thor and the TTLs. With this SA, the worst click on the Thor is 11IT, 3 Arm P with an AO of 20” – not bad for a mech on its last click of life! One of the Padillas could also pick up Arm P if the Thor doesn’t need it.
ROTS/Liao SA
WH Vixen/Gloria/Liao Recruit/IT WH Vixen/Milhew/ROTS recruit/IT 4 x ROTS ATVs ROTS Bishop 3 x Liao TGRs 5 x ROTS Minigun Cycles Liao CT ROTS/Liao SA
I thought this would be a good way of making use of the Vixens’ first strike ability, backed up by TGRs and more basers/harassers.
Ares
Poseidon/Moros (+2 attack Gunner)/Hermes (+2 move Pilot)
As my 11 year old may be coming along, I thought an Ares would be a safe bet for him to use. I’m not sure what the best set up is but this makes the 600 dead on.
I think the Hammerfall is my favourite army but I’m a bit worried that this build is out of the bag and Constant Tremors will be the death of it
I do like the Shiro/Kuro Ha combination and I’ve played Jack quite a lot and do like the fact that its easy to get the planetary conditions you want in play as nearly everybody wants blocking.
As much as I’d love to take TTLs, I just can’t seem to get a good combo together.
|
|
|
Post by Zxqueb on May 14, 2007 11:37:20 GMT -5
I’m narrowing the field down for army builds. Still a lot to choose from but here’s what I have so far: Jack Shooter Army #1*snip* The armies that you REALLY need the MFP to hit are the same armies that will be running true grit. Jack Shooter Army #2I like this one better than #1 HammerfallI honestly believe the smart money brings True grit or nothing at all to a faction pure event. I wouldn't waste the points on the BR FP. KuritaSee above comment. Even more so as +1 damage isn't as good an effect. TTL Army #1This is the best army as written in my opinion. I would try to throw in a combat repair tech and scale back on the miniguns a bit though. TTL Army #2I don't like it as much as #1 ROTS/Liao SAI like this army a lot, but I would like it better with a solid tank drop over one of the mechs. AresYep. It's an ares.
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on May 15, 2007 20:34:28 GMT -5
TTL Army #1Onslaught/Killick/HS Recruit/IT MH1 APC 2 x TTL Bishop VTOL Carnivore Tank 5 x Minigun Cycles I’d love to take a TTL drop and going Steiner FP is the best way of doing it. Unfortunately, their own mechs are pretty poor and I don’t have the depth of figures.TTL Army #2CW Thor/Krensky/IT HS Bishop 2 x HS TTLs HS CT 2x HS SRM Teams 2 x CW Padillas CW/HS SA The Padillas form an AAMS umbrella around the Thor and the TTLs. With this SA, the worst click on the Thor is 11IT, 3 Arm P with an AO of 20” – not bad for a mech on its last click of life! One of the Padillas could also pick up Arm P if the Thor doesn’t need it.ROTS/Liao SAWH Vixen/Gloria/Liao Recruit/IT WH Vixen/Milhew/ROTS recruit/IT 4 x ROTS ATVs ROTS Bishop 3 x Liao TGRs 5 x ROTS Minigun Cycles Liao CT ROTS/Liao SA I thought this would be a good way of making use of the Vixens’ first strike ability, backed up by TGRs and more basers/harassers. I think these are your three best builds. As much as I like the CW Thor and the "Padilla AAMS Umbrella," I think the other TTL army is stronger. The HS Carnivore is a mean machine, and if I am reading correctly, you are at exactly 600 points. I really like the ROTS/HL SA; it's a really good ability. That said, I'm not sure it's worth 40 points. I will probably never play a FP or SA again, after losing due to an SA card on VC 2 . . . If it were me, I would try recruiting the Vixens to ROTS, and just replacing the Liao figures with Republic versions. Dropping the formation into base with a Vixen will not be much harder than dropping the formation somewhere else, and you save 40 points (and automatic VC 2 loss) by doing so.
|
|
|
Post by asburygrad on May 16, 2007 17:03:37 GMT -5
To Phil (since you've been mentioning the WH Vixen): WizKids ruled on the forums that you can use RISC Overcharger with Infiltrate without having to make the RISC roll for failure. So with Kelly Bonilla, you can infiltrate up to 17 inches (10 + 3 + 4), take your SU click to prime, and then attack into the deployment zone. You can also do assault orders without making the RISC roll, so you have effective 23-inch ranged orders and 17-move close combat assault orders, all with no chance of failure. I thought you might enjoy all that.
|
|
|
Post by tjpandv on May 17, 2007 5:19:17 GMT -5
To Phil (since you've been mentioning the WH Vixen): WizKids ruled on the forums that you can use RISC Overcharger with Infiltrate without having to make the RISC roll for failure. So with Kelly Bonilla, you can infiltrate up to 17 inches (10 + 3 + 4), take your SU click to prime, and then attack into the deployment zone. You can also do assault orders without making the RISC roll, so you have effective 23-inch ranged orders and 17-move close combat assault orders, all with no chance of failure. I thought you might enjoy all that. Wow, thanks for that. The build is still on the gimmicky side but first strike is so rare these days. I managed to find the Clarification on the BM site - I can't get access to this at work. Kelly is a great pilot but the cost is high. I think that a 2 move gunslinger could get 16 inches up the table which isn't enough to shoot on turn 1 without assaulting. I'd have to weigh up the points but obviously RISC Overcharger at 5 points is a lot less than IT or C3i, so perhaps there's a trade-off to be had. MAybe lead with Kelly and move up a second with an AO? My biggest concern with this build is the 3 damage on the Vixen insomuch that it will only scratch black armour; to the point that Hammerfall and BR FP will just repair the 1 click of damage. I guess its a matter of avoiding Hammerfall and going for the supporting repair mech. Still, another twist to be had. Thanks for the info - much appreciated. I'm off to crunch some numbers.
|
|