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Post by tjpandv on May 17, 2007 8:05:12 GMT -5
I had a couple of practice games against a guy from the Club who will be at the UK Nats. They both went well. Army 1 was the Alpha/Jack/CW Padilla/CW SRM Team army and it faced a CW Thor, WH Kelswa and TGR Drop together with some WH CBA. Some good synergy between Jack and the Padilla as well as the SRMs. Alpha was fine - a little fragile for me but the heat dial is superb. The SRMs were able to blow holes in some WH CBA and the Padilla fired in with anti pers. The Padilla was also able to save some damage from any incoming indirect fire. The SRM's ability to infiltrate also meant they could form a pocket for Alpha to step into.
All in all, very happy with the set up and pleasantly suprised by the synergy.
Game 2 was the Lizzie/Onslaught combo with a HS Carnivore drop and a couple of TTLs. My opponent took a BR Soli, X Axis Repair Monkey and Thug, together with BR FP. Too many mistakes from my opponent - he let the Soli stay within shooting range of Lizzie, even though it also had a TTL POG on it. The POG does 2, Lizzie rolls a 5, shoots through the blocking for 6 with its PPC - bye bye Soli. Still 2 mechs v 1 but now he overheats Thug and the X Axis. Only the X Axis shuts down but it gets tagged by the Carnivore and Lizzie and is then pogged next turn and is killed. Thug does hit Lizzie, effectively neutering here with 5 damage from a PPC shot. By the end, Thug was regenerating using the FP but that was time.
Lizzie's heat dial is a bit too dangerous for me with those critical heat effects lying in wait. The ability is nice - esp if you're defensive. I wouldn't want to rely upon it to attack.
Overall, I may well have to find room for True Grit as that BR FP was a real pain. Thug is a very nasty piece with SU Evade. One to watch out for and a piece I'm not sure how to counter as yet.
More stuff to try, but the Alpha/Jack/Padilla/SRM Team look a good bet.
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Post by asburygrad on May 17, 2007 13:56:54 GMT -5
Kelly is a great pilot but the cost is high. I think that a 2 move gunslinger could get 16 inches up the table which isn't enough to shoot on turn 1 without assaulting. I'd have to weigh up the points but obviously RISC Overcharger at 5 points is a lot less than IT or C3i, so perhaps there's a trade-off to be had. MAybe lead with Kelly and move up a second with an AO? My biggest concern with this build is the 3 damage on the Vixen insomuch that it will only scratch black armour; to the point that Hammerfall and BR FP will just repair the 1 click of damage. I guess its a matter of avoiding Hammerfall and going for the supporting repair mech. I'm not even sure that the first strike is the biggest deal. 23-inch assault orders are very, very rare. That gives you terrific range. 17-inch CC AOs aren't bad either. I'm still thinking about this one . . . Good write-ups on your two matches. I hope the Alpha/Padillas army works out for you. I've played the Thug/Soli army (although I used a second Soli instead of X-Axis - I hate that thing's heat dial!!), and I found that all that speed was pretty effective. I left Thug in too much danger, and it drops fast - it has a typically short BR life dial. So it can be killed, like all Bannson's pieces - if you strike fast and hard. Don't let it run off, which is what my opponent let me do.
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Post by tjpandv on May 17, 2007 15:23:36 GMT -5
As for the ultra-long CCAO, some lights do look better bets than others.
The Mongoose from SC, DF or BR all have either HtH, Rap Str or agility - all with a 9AV and a move of 10.
The Liao Mjolnir has a 12 move, 9AV and Rap Str together with evade.
Okami and Sei Gi pick up close combat SEs and their AV rises nicely through the dial.
Hermod is another odd one - he has IT on the dial with an AV of 8, a 12 move and picks up pulse after 5 clicks with a decent AV to boot.
Finally, the BR Vixen with a 12 move that has evade, agility and then grapple late on is another good piece.
Perhaps ther's a light mech verion out there of the Kuro HA/TLW combo. The Liao Mjolnir and HK Rokus woud make a nice pairing and there could even be room for a third Mech.
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Post by asburygrad on May 18, 2007 10:06:34 GMT -5
Oops! The Arbitrator ruled yesterday that you will have to make the RISC roll for Overcharger whenever the piece is moved - like for assault orders. Kills that idea somewhat.
Man, nice call on the Liao Mjolnir + Rokus! I don't know of anyone else that has thought of a different build for that SA, other than KH/YLW.
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Post by brinxter on May 20, 2007 16:54:24 GMT -5
Oops! The Arbitrator ruled yesterday that you will have to make the RISC roll for Overcharger whenever the piece is moved - like for assault orders. Kills that idea somewhat. When and where was this ruling made? I cant find anything about it!
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Post by asburygrad on May 21, 2007 10:36:14 GMT -5
The thread is here: forum.wizkidsgames.com/showthread.php?t=161468 It's in the envoy forum, though. Not sure if you can access it or not, Brinxter. So here is SouthPaw's actual statement: "Yes, it adds the +4 modifier when making an assault order, but you have to make the roll before you move the unit during an assault order, so you're not skipping the roll in that instance."
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Post by brinxter on May 21, 2007 13:12:26 GMT -5
The thread is here: forum.wizkidsgames.com/showthread.php?t=161468 It's in the envoy forum, though. Not sure if you can access it or not, Brinxter. So here is SouthPaw's actual statement: "Yes, it adds the +4 modifier when making an assault order, but you have to make the roll before you move the unit during an assault order, so you're not skipping the roll in that instance." that leads me to think the question was if the gear could be used on an assault. it doesnt imply the roll is mandatory with each move, like with Seismic Dampener (on each turn).
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Post by asburygrad on May 21, 2007 13:49:53 GMT -5
Well, here's the text from the card:
(optional) Before moving this unit, roll one six-sided die. On a result of 1 or 2, this gear is ignored and this unit may not be moved; this includes changing its facing. Any order given to this unit is lost. Also on a result of 1, eliminate this gear.
The wording "before moving this unit" implies that you have to make the roll before you move the piece, no matter what type of order it is.
The original question in the thread was, do you get to use this gear with Infiltrate for +4 speed without making the RISC roll? And the answer was yes, because you aren't moving the piece when you use Infiltrate - you are deploying it.
Hope that helps (rather than making things worse!).
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Post by brinxter on May 21, 2007 16:51:30 GMT -5
I just had a little conversation with our big friend Southpaw. And it seems that the roll is only required if you want the extra +4 speed. This is because all the text is listed after (optional)
So, sadly i must still find a way to disable that nasty DFA option wich keep trumping my SAD... i have one in mind though.
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Post by tjpandv on May 22, 2007 8:10:31 GMT -5
Just wanted to run something by you guys. This build is a possibility for our Nats as it uses a SA to become "faction pure"...
Thug/Vasquez/SU Evade Emperor/Ryohara/SU Evade BR/SW SA (Repair or push 1 click).
An alternate is to swap Ryohara for Kerensky - better attack but 1 less DV.
Whilst the DVs of these 2 mechs can be pretty high, am I right in thinking that if you leave SU evade on and are shot at 3 times, you would take 3 clicks of SU pushing damage in the 1 turn? That would mean even a shot from an ATV or a Minigun would trigger SU evade and cause a click of damage.
The alternate is to turn SU evade off. But, once I've done this, isn't it off for the rest of the turn? So, the Minigun shoots at me and I don't use SU evade. No hit and no pushing. However, next thing to shoot at me is a 12IT mech - now that I have turned SU evade off, can I turn it back on again when the mech shoots at me? I'm thinking its a no-no which is a real drawback.
I've tested this against an Ares and the multiple shooting attempts by the Ares can really whittle away at the Mechs' DVs.
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Post by warlord1985 on May 22, 2007 8:17:15 GMT -5
The alternate is to turn SU evade off. But, once I've done this, isn't it off for the rest of the turn? So, the Minigun shoots at me and I don't use SU evade. No hit and no pushing. However, next thing to shoot at me is a 12IT mech - now that I have turned SU evade off, can I turn it back on again when the mech shoots at me? I'm thinking its a no-no which is a real drawback. I've tested this against an Ares and the multiple shooting attempts by the Ares can really whittle away at the Mechs' DVs. Once an equipment is turned off for the turn it is OFF for the remainder of the turn.
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Post by tjpandv on May 22, 2007 8:45:47 GMT -5
The alternate is to turn SU evade off. But, once I've done this, isn't it off for the rest of the turn? So, the Minigun shoots at me and I don't use SU evade. No hit and no pushing. However, next thing to shoot at me is a 12IT mech - now that I have turned SU evade off, can I turn it back on again when the mech shoots at me? I'm thinking its a no-no which is a real drawback. I've tested this against an Ares and the multiple shooting attempts by the Ares can really whittle away at the Mechs' DVs. Once an equipment is turned off for the turn it is OFF for the remainder of the turn. Thanks - I thought that might be the case - why can't they introduce an "on" and an "off" switch? I've got one in my office at work and its connected to the electric kettle - surely the MW universe could replicate something similar? Against most opponents, I'm not sure how many attacks will be made against these 2 mechs, so perhaps the build could survive.
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Post by brinxter on May 22, 2007 9:31:12 GMT -5
Once an equipment is turned off for the turn it is OFF for the remainder of the turn. Thanks - I thought that might be the case - why can't they introduce an "on" and an "off" switch? I've got one in my office at work and its connected to the electric kettle - surely the MW universe could replicate something similar? Against most opponents, I'm not sure how many attacks will be made against these 2 mechs, so perhaps the build could survive. Actually i like the way this is handled at the moment. If facing something like that i would get any and everything that can get a shot in in range of the thing i was shooting at with my main gun. So that indeed he would take atleast 4 damage, even if every shot misses. But still that kind of thing is hard to pull off. I so like Emperor, but i just cant get past the 4 vanilla damage at 12" for 230 points.
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Post by asburygrad on May 23, 2007 10:18:41 GMT -5
I just had a little conversation with our big friend Southpaw. And it seems that the roll is only required if you want the extra +4 speed. This is because all the text is listed after (optional) AHH!! I wondered what the problem was. I just assumed we were talking about getting the +4 speed bonus, thus my confusion. Yes, you can ignore the benefit and move normally without making a RISC roll. About Evade as a circle (to use the AoD terminology): remember that once you turn it off, it's off for the whole turn. But if you leave it on, you can turn it off later. Someone at a local venue was confused recently, and thought that once it was declared on it had to be left on. So in Brinxter's example of taking 3 or 4 shots at the Mech with this gear, he could choose to use the Evade against the first and second shots, then turn it off and avoid taking "circle" damage on the last few shots. But then, it doesn't get the +2 defense bonus. This, I think, is a great weakness to the Evade as Circle gear card. It seems to me that every time I face it, I would always shoot with some weak infantry unit and let my opponent make a bad decision either way: take 1 damage automatically from the gear itself, or turn it off so that my later shots are easier hits. Not to mention the slim chance of the infantry actually hitting and dealing even more damage . . .
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Post by tjpandv on May 23, 2007 11:06:44 GMT -5
I think SU Evade is a decent set up for Emperor as that hardened armour can negate a lot of infantry shots and even minimise the damage Poseidon's streak missiles.
Still more practice required.
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