Favorite Basers - Post-AoD

[asburygrad]

I wanted to hear what the European Mechwarrior community is using right now for fast basers, AoD onwards. I'm so used to running my SH and HL ATVs that I haven't paid much attention to post-AoD basing.

A few units that come to the top of my mind:
1. HD Purifier
2. JF Clan BA (from VG)
3. ROTS Minigun
4. WH Minigun
5. WH Shamash
6. WH GDSBA
7. HL GDSBA
8. HD Monocycle
9. NC Clan BA (VG version)
10. HD PAL Suit

Let me know what you think of these pieces, and if I've missed any notables.

[tjpandv]

Its very difficult for post AoD basers to live up to the reputation of the Liao ATVs and the SC Hoverbikes.

The art of basing has been taken back a little by the ability to shoot in and out of base contact. That means that your baser is either on a 1-way trip or it has a liong enough dial to survive a hit. The move to 600 points and the allocation of 4 orders per turn has meant that players aren't always starved of orders but having to clear away a baser is certainly 1 used up.

If we base something, then we are usually wanting that piece to stop fulfilling its primary role (preventing artillery from firing, stopping the assault order or stopping a charge of DFA).
We need our baser to get there in the first place and then to survive our opponent's turn. You're looking for a piece that has good speed, a decent dial and a relatively good defence (or some SE that enhances its defence). The points cost is also important as your likely to loose that baser in 1 or possibly 2 turns.

As a bonus, its also useful if our baser can do "other stuff" - this usually means being able to fight as a piece in its own right.

I would have to say that the Liao ATV probably set the benchmark in terms of speed, cost and survivability. I've looked at the list and compared the "new kids on the block" with the master...

Any unit with a speed of 11 or less gets a mark deducted for each speed point. Any speed of 12 or more gets a point added for each extra speed point.

Same for cost, any unit costing 13 or more points gets a point deducted for each point over, anything 11 or less, gets points added.

For dial length, any click of 6 or more gets 2 points for each increment and looses 2 for each click of life of 4 or less.

Finally, units are also given 2 points for each useful piece of SE that a baser would find useful (Recon, Infiltrate, Jump Jets, Grapple).

So, the Liao ATV at 12 points, with 5 clicks of life, a speed of 12 and infiltrate is our target. It scores 0+0+0+2 for a total of 2.

HD Purifier 20pts (-8), 7 clicks (+4), 9 spd (-3), Ifil + JJs (+4) = -3

JF Clan BA 18pts(-6), 6 clicks (+2), 12 spd (0), JJs (+2) = -2

ROTS Minigun 9pts (+3), 5 clicks (0), 12 spd (0) = +3

WH Minigun 10pts(+2), 4 clicks (-2), 11 spd (-1) = - 1

WH Shamash 24pts (-12), 5 clicks (0), 18 spd (+6), Ifil + Recon (+4) = -2

WH GDSBA 17pts (-5), 5 clicks (0), 8 spd (-4), Recon (+2) = -7

HL GDSBA 19pts (-7), 6 clicks (-2), 8 spd (-4), Recon (+2) = -9

HD Mono 17pts (-5), 4 clicks (-2), 11 spd (-1), Recon (+2) = -6

NC Clan BA 18pts (-6), 7 clicks (+4), 8 spd (-4), JJs (+2) = -4

HD PAL 14 pts (-2), 6 clicks (+2), 8 spd (-4), Recon (+2) = -2

I've added a few more to the list if that's OK...

DF Shock Tprs 14pts (-2), 5 clicks (0), 10 spd (-2), JJs (+2) = -2

CJF Raiden 16pts (-4), 6 clicks (+2), 9 spd (-3), JJs (+2) = -3

CNC ATV 14pts (-2), 4 clicks (-2), 12 spd(0), Infil (+2) = -2

OK - so I like numbers!

I think a lot of the battle armour here doesn't have the speed to be called a fast baser. Their strength lies more in the fact that they carry a considerable threat to your opponent.

I think there are the 2 types of basers. Those that do nothing but base - where speed is of the essence and survivability is a good thing to have. I think the ROTS Minigun is the one for me here - only 45 points for a pack of 5 and the reactive armour helps them to get where they need to be. 5 inf bases also occupy a lot of space on the table and if they can't base a transport to try and stop a drop, they can always park en masse where the tank needs to be..!

The other type is the fast unit that also has a fighting role to play. This usally means Battle Armour. Although they are expensive the HD Purifier are a real force multiplier. A unit of these and you don't necessarily need to have separate basers. Granted its around 80 points for a solid unit, but they don't die easily and can tough it out for 50 minutes to boot.

That's my take on it. If pushed for points, go for the ROTS Miniguns. Next step up would be the CNC ATVs. If you can afford it, use the HS Purifiers - great if you can afford to play defensivley and let your opponent move onto them.

[elite130]

ATV's all flavours
HD Purifiers

that is it for me.

[asburygrad]

Wow! Quite a point system going, Phil. Thanks!

I would comment that nothing in the post-AoD set beats the HL ATV, at least in my opinion - I would never choose any of these over the old ATVs if it were an unrestricted game. So maybe a new baseline should be chosen, such as the HK or NC ATV?

As for the ROTS Miniguns - I notice they get +3 in your rating, while the Liao ATV gets +2 - due to its cost. Shouldn't the infiltrate on the ATV set it ahead of the Minigun? Or should the Minigun get bonus points for Reactive Armor (a real pain vs TTLs)?

But overall, I like your attempt to systemically examine these pieces. I tend to agree with Elite - I reach for ATVs and the HD Purifiers more than anything else - although the super-cheap ROTS Miniguns are up there as well.

I find myself drawn to Recon-equipped HD and WH PAL Suits and WH GDSBA on occasion, and I've been waiting for a chance to try the 12-speed JF Clan BA. But I doubt these pieces will perform as well as the ATVs.

[elite130]

I dont use inf. as a fighting formation anymore, as they can not threaten SAD or Magister. Some of the WH units with 10 inch ar okish but you need to drop 5 of em. Also I dont belief 5 inf. in formation can catch up with any mech.

I wish but inf. reduced to next nothing in my opinion.

Ill be honest on occasion i might use a HS Slyph. I sometimes consider a RD Slyph but thatis about it.

[tjpandv]

Those numbers are so subjective but I did find it interesting to go through some of the stats. You're right about the Reactive on the ROTS Miniguns and they are a threat to the TTLs, or even streak-equipped Mechs.

As for infiltration and ATVs, I tend to see them either left in the DZ with the SU click not used or just kept about 1/3 up the table. I think the Dark Age rules that made basing so effective saw the rise of the ATV and its ability to lock down your opponent.

Anyway, enough about numbers. As Elite says, the role of inf is now very limited. There are specialised pieces such as the TTLs, Combat Techs and Sylphs and the TGRs. There is very little room for them as conventional foot-sloggers. Thats quite a shame for a game that is supposed to be "Combined Arms."

I still like the HD Purifiers as a unit in their own right. Even the DF Shocks can present a threat insomuch that they can, unlike the ATVs and Miniguns, attempt a capture which is another spin-off of a successful basing manouvre.

[asburygrad]

To Elite: I should have clarified. I was thinking of the HD and WH PAL Suits and WH GDSBA as basers for their Recon SE. Being able to shoot 10 inches was a secondary characteristic.

I realize they're slow as dirt and don't seem like much threat. But without the cheap command available in Unrestricted play, I don't see how to run a "traditional" mechless or near-Mechless army without a lot of Recon to save on move orders - and Recon is pretty limited, in my opinion. Maybe the HD Monocycle could be used . . . but it's expensive for what it does.

And how did we miss the Sylphs in earlier discussion??

[mikeguth]

Does the appearance of the Revenge Daishi along with the ever present Ares Threat make all basers obsolete??

Mike Guth

[elite130]

No, the main reason I use basers is to stop a Assault order that is still true with Revenge. That it can escape is no biggie to me. Havent faced a Mech without JJ or Evade in ages. So same expectations there.

[tjpandv]

Not exactly an issue of fast basers, more one of the best infantry to pick in unrestricted. Having looked through some of my "shelved" collection of figures prior to Gencon, I did come across some long-forgotten pieces that are really excellent at giving you maximum clicks for your points. Here are some examples:

HiL Infiltrator MkII BA - 14pts, 7 clicks, 7spd with 3 lots of JJs.
SC ISBA - 14pts, 7 clicks, 8 spd with 3 lots of JJS.
SC Fenrir - 15 pts, 7 clicks, 8 spd.
SC Kage BA - 16pts, 7 clicks, 10 spd with 4 lots of JJs.
ROTS Infiltrator MII BA - 16pts, 7 clicks, 8 spd with 3 lots of JJs.
SC CavBA - 14pts, 7 clicks, 8 spd with 3 lots of JJs.
Merc CBA - 15pts, 6 clicks, 8 spd with 4 lots of JJs.
ROTS CavBA - 18pts, 7 clicks, 8 spd with 4 lots of JJs.
Liao Infiltrator MkI - 15pts, 6 clicks, 7spd (+infiltrate).

A movement formation of 5 of these pieces will cost you from 70-90 points and thats averaging 35 clicks of damage to get rid of them.

I think that there is a place for these guys in the game. A pair of infantry formations present your opponent with the option of trying to destroy them (and taking his time over it) or leaving them to one side and finding himself swamped. I know they will never catch fast mechs as such, but they can deny them operating room. They can also make life difficult for drops who will need the room to place their vehicles.

I went for BA as they tend to have the better equipment and longer dials. A big shout has to go out for the SC Hoverbike which outshines many of the BA for either speed or "points per click" but I was after some troops who would pose a cpature problem as well as soak up damage. Some, like the HiL Infiltrator, present very little actual threat. Others do carry some danger if they end up in base contact.

I'm not sure what happened to the points value of the newer pieces. Only the CNC CBA really shows well (as its almost a carbon copy of the SC version).

Off to the Battleplanner we go...

[Zxqueb]

That's a good list. It's easy to "forget" the old work horses when the new hotness comes around.

In particular, I've gotten a ton of use from the SC Kage BA and the, Merc CBA and Liao Infiltrator MkI. That last one I used to play all the time.

I agree that infantry formations still have a place in the game. They prevent move and shoot and can allow faster, but shorter range mechs a chance to get in the first shot by locking down a mech for the turn.

I'd add fa shih's to the list of hugely useful infantry from yesteryear.

Z