Ok.. So I am playing around with 450 army ideas

[baw]

I am really waiting to hear what they have to say from Europe but they have the 600pt 2 mech restriction.


I am trying to find a good solid 450 pt army to look at then move onto a 600pt army for July


Hmm My first choice for a mech is... Chikako but I bet you knew that! I am going to have to crunch some numbers I played the army the other day I suggested for an anti-twin variant of CHikako. I do need to work on it some.

[baw]

Here is the army I tried the other day.

AOD123 Unique Gunslingers Xanthos 'Chikako' 211
FI-GS-020 Unique Gunslingers Boris Vassilev (No recruiting) 37
AOD066 Veteran Spirit Cats R10 Mechanized ICV 48
FI036 Elite Dragon's Fury Tokugawa Heavy Tank 60
AN004 Elite House Liao Combat Technicians 15
FI012 Elite House Steiner Towed Thunder Launcher 26
FI012 Elite House Steiner Towed Thunder Launcher 26
DOM001 Green Republic of the Sphere Minigun Cycle 9
DOM001 Green Republic of the Sphere Minigun Cycle 9
DOM001 Green Republic of the Sphere Minigun Cycle 9

[tjpandv]

Baw, how did Chikako do?

The UK Nats has just fallen into line with the RoW and we're going 450 constructed. I'm now wondering:

Can you discount the Twins in 450?
- First strike from a charge + double order will still inflict plenty of damage.
- Still 170 points of support.

Is mechless still viable?
- WH R10s a possible solution to a lack of cheap command.
- Removes Twins' +1 targetting advantage.
- Can use Grasslands to good effect.
- No worry from Phelan Ward.

Phelan Ward - a possible game winner?
- If ability kicks in against fatty, its a game winner.
- Can you build a decent army around him?

Solitude - the new target to beat?
- Difficult to balance in a 450 pointer.
- Should you not build every army so that it can take down Solitude?

Merc FP and True Grit - one or the other?
- Merc FP too powerful to ignore?
- Can you build a Merc/WH pure army to make the 5/150 points cost?

I'm looking at Mechless and Merc FP armies, but as the Euro Event is still in my blood, I've been taking a closer look at the Lokis and how they fare:

CJF Loki:

Big damage at the outset, a great piece if you can get the first strike in (short on the range, but good on movement). Pilot recruitment a bit of an issue with De Jesus costing +14 to recruit.

OUTLOAD - Kerensky+IT+CJF Loki = 305 points.

Esperanza:

A classic but lacks the in-built pulse. Good range and a better choice of pilots. Good repairability.

OUTLOAD - Lassonde+IT+Esperanza = 285 points.

Kaze:

Short range as per the CJF. Picks up pulse at a critical point in its dial.

OULOAD - De Jesus+IT+Kaze = 284 points.

I've put these up against Solitude and they all do well as long as they get the first hit. The CJF Loki needs very little help and can even get away without pulsing on its first shot. Adding heat to Solitude is the key. Esperanza's damage tails off a little and she may struggle unassisted. Kaze is a monster and a hit from Solitude will prime Kaze with pulse. Esperanza is my fave at the mo, so I came up with this:

Esperanza, Lassonde, IT
ROTS Bishop
2 x SH TTLs
ROTS CT
5 x HK ATVs

If the Twins reappear, then Kaze may well overtake Esperanza. Against Solitude, the TTLs need Esperanza to hit twice when Solitude's armour turns grey and in they go. I've got to get to grips with the CJF Loki's 20 extra points but most mechs look worse for wear after 10 clicks!

[elite130]

tjpandv said:

Baw, how did Chikako do?

The UK Nats has just fallen into line with the RoW and we're going 450 constructed. I'm now wondering:

Can you discount the Twins in 450?
- First strike from a charge + double order will still inflict plenty of damage.
- Still 170 points of support.

Well the twins player now must also be prepared to risk 140+20 isch equipment each game. With the extra heat and the gear you need to do 6 damage That is something you must prepare for.

tjpandv said:

Is mechless still viable?
- WH R10s a possible solution to a lack of cheap command.
- Removes Twins' +1 targetting advantage.
- Can use Grasslands to good effect.
- No worry from Phelan Ward.

In 3 orders 450 I do not see much good choices in 450.

tjpandv said:

Phelan Ward - a possible game winner?
- If ability kicks in against fatty, its a game winner.
- Can you build a decent army around him?

It is not a reliable game winner, think of it like this suppose it is single elmination would you play Phelan ? I decided I dont.

tjpandv said:

Solitude - the new target to beat?
- Difficult to balance in a 450 pointer.
- Should you not build every army so that it can take down Solitude?

Every army can, but no you dont need to it is slow, kill the support and run. it is the ancient way of fighting fatties and it still applies.

tjpandv said:

Merc FP and True Grit - one or the other?
- Merc FP too powerful to ignore?
- Can you build a Merc/WH pure army to make the 5/150 points cost?

I'm looking at Mechless and Merc FP armies, but as the Euro Event is still in my blood, I've been taking a closer look at the Lokis and how they fare:

Lokis rule, they are realy realy tough, alternativly take a CNC NC Vet just as tough slightly slower but better range. I never was much afraid of the Merc FP, but I do respect it.

tjpandv said:

CJF Loki:

Big damage at the outset, a great piece if you can get the first strike in (short on the range, but good on movement). Pilot recruitment a bit of an issue with De Jesus costing +14 to recruit.

OUTLOAD - Kerensky+IT+CJF Loki = 305 points.

that is it load out with Kerensky and you will be fine. Not only is it a scary piece it's heat dial is a game winner.

tjpandv said:

Esperanza:

A classic but lacks the in-built pulse. Good range and a better choice of pilots. Good repairability.

OUTLOAD - Lassonde+IT+Esperanza = 285 points.

At least affordable and decent speed.

tjpandv said:

Kaze:

Short range as per the CJF. Picks up pulse at a critical point in its dial.

OULOAD - De Jesus+IT+Kaze = 284 points.

I've put these up against Solitude and they all do well as long as they get the first hit. The CJF Loki needs very little help and can even get away without pulsing on its first shot. Adding heat to Solitude is the key. Esperanza's damage tails off a little and she may struggle unassisted. Kaze is a monster and a hit from Solitude will prime Kaze with pulse. Esperanza is my fave at the mo, so I came up with this:

Esperanza, Lassonde, IT
ROTS Bishop
2 x SH TTLs
ROTS CT
5 x HK ATVs

Very strong army.

tjpandv said:

If the Twins reappear, then Kaze may well overtake Esperanza. Against Solitude, the TTLs need Esperanza to hit twice when Solitude's armour turns grey and in they go. I've got to get to grips with the CJF Loki's 20 extra points but most mechs look worse for wear after 10 clicks!

I woudnt worry about the twins over much. Also with TTL's you will kill both of them. or make sure they cannot double order.

Play the Esperanza + TTL you will do fine.

Regards
Elite130

[baw]

How did Chikako do at the ECC? Did he have some glaring faults or is it easy to counter him or did PC cards kill him?

I truly like Chikako.. I might try one of the loki armies and see how they do!

baw

[elite130]

Chikaku made semi finals at ECC.

Then it met Alpha and TTL's.

So ended Chikaku at the ECC.

Dear TJPandv

howabout

Vet NC +dejesus+IT 294
RotS Bishop 39
>HS TTL 26
>HS TTL 26
>RotS CT 13
4 HK ATV

[baw]

i know you killed it. I went back and read your battle report in a little more detail and started to see where some of the issues were!

I see that you prevented him from making some moves and distracted him with units.. He needed water but he removed that himself. Urban can be advantageous to Chikako but also removes some of his advantage (double water cooling!)

I really need to start putting an army I feel comfortable with together!

[tjpandv]

elite130 said:

Dear TJPandv

how about

Vet NC +dejesus+IT 294
RotS Bishop 39
>HS TTL 26
>HS TTL 26
>RotS CT 13
4 HK ATV

Elite, that looks nasty - the range will be a killer (any reason you didn't take this piece to Paris?) - the TSEMP is a bonus. I just ran the numbers against Solitude and it looks pretty good. Assaulting Solitude needs a 50% hit, but if you can base him, then he can't assault you and you can take a pop from 16" away next turn. Also, Solitude's min range will mean that he can't target an ATV in base contact so will suffer from the called shot. I hadn't noticed the 3 vent on the NC. Hitting Solitude with energy really hurts him. Time for testing and selecting PCCs...

By the way, I'm only using Solitutde as the benchmark - I'm pretty sure if that goes, then most other mechs will also crack open.

[baw]

It does look interesting.. I am not truly sure I like the HK ATV"s for some reason they didn't appeal to me at first. I will have to go back and look at them again!

I really hate spending 39 points on a Transport for decently ranged arty! It is decent but I just hate spending those points.!

[elite130]

@ TJpandv
In a pinch I would play Alpha again as it has another extra inch of AO.

And I did bring that piece but it is 20-30 points more expensive than Alpha.

Btw Ian played it.

In 450 it can fit.

baw
You can upgrade the ATV's towards CNC ones and 1 Minigun I think. The Bishop is needed mostly vs. other arty, they need to be ArP as the Bishop is Reactive and you can then drop on his arty for 4 damage. Also 22 inch isnt the board. the extra 39 gives them 6 lifes more and you reach the board.

Regards
E130

[tjpandv]

I tried the CNC army out against a Shiro last night (I was thinking that a Shiro behind blocking would be a nightmare). I got player 2 and was able to place water where I guessed my opponent would want a B1. The Shiro settled in behind the blocking with a screen of ATVs protecting the rear. I got the win in the end but I had to take the Shiro's first hit and it missed a follow-up shot when I was able to base it and take the called shot modifier. The TTLs pretty much wiped out the screening ATVs - its great to push and repair in the same turn! I also felt Crags was a help, it rules out any desparation charge - I'd certainly take this to ward off Lokis.

I'm still going to go test against the Shiro as I see it posing a bigger threat than, say tank drop. These big mechs can pretty much take a Kelswa shot as long as you can get the tank based and force a called shot modifier.

Still thinkig of Kaze to give me the mobility that the CNC lacks.

More testing tonight.

[elite130]

Thing with Kaminari/Shiro is they win the range game. I would simply stay away and erode that support base with the TTL's. After that supportbase is gone the Shiro is mincemeat.

But the Loki.s NC and Shiros all can afford to take 5 damage and fight on. Against Shiro is also the only time you might need dust storms.

If you want to go for a Loki I would suggest the CJF because of the heat management.

Some thoughts.
E130

[tjpandv]

Just an update to say that the Vet CNC Nova Cat+TTLs has met with more sucess. The Nova Cat can take a Kelswa hit and still strike back with great effect - especially when there are TTL POGs also dropping around the tank. Those TTLs always find a target at some point in the game. I'm going to park this one as I may well take it with me to the Nats. Kaze has also come through well in testing - being able to take a bit hit and fight back does make it a powerful piece. My opponent did wonder why I'd fitted all the heavies with IT, until he started to miss on 11's to 13's...

Next up I'm looking at Jack Nightstalker with either a Kelswa drop or a WH Mjolnir, and perhaps Merc FP. By taking PD, Sensor Echoes and Storm, you'll play 3 games where Barrens won't hurt you.

I may also look at a BR Soli pairing with Phelan Ward as a third mech.

Am now under orders to go and cut the lawn...

[tjpandv]

I've squeezed a couple more points out of the CNC Nova Cat army - by swapping the ROTS Bishop for a HD one, the 2 points saved can be used to upgrade 2 of the HK ATVs to CNC ones. The Bishop can drop the TTLs pretty safely so I can forgo the blue armour.

This is a HD FP Loki army that could make someone's eyes water...

HD Loki + De Jesus
HD Bishop
3 x SSwn TGRs
5 x HD ATVs
HD GDBA
HD Faction Pride

I would have preferred 6 ATVS, but was 2 points short so in comes the GDBA. One of those ATVS can now do 3 damage in a formation shot, one of the TGRs can dish out 4 and the Loki goes up to 7 (8 in a charge!) - or still hit for 5 after several clicks of damage. I know the Loki struggles to hit with an 11 AV, but that's what the TGR drop is there for. I just like the thought of first striking a Loki, Twin, Black Rose or even Phelan Ward for 3 before they've even moved - heck, even Solitude would take 1!!

[baw]

@ Elite I played the TTL's yesterday without drop and it does make them more tricky to use. Especially since one of my opponents had dual Liao Long toms. They can reach 25" across the board. more than 2/3s of the board. The Bishop does help for counterbattery avoidance I just wonder at the cost at times. I played 1 Liao Long tom and a TTL. I did get the TTL killed the second game because I moved it up to get range on his hiding units and Peacemaker AO'ed it!

I am going to have to look at it more!

tjpandv

It is a good faction pure HD army. Something we haven't seen in a good long time. I might try playing it if we have a Faction pure unrestricted!