Hyper. Laser. Biatch.

[TrevortheAwesome]

Okay, future Nats/Worlds competitors, let's hear it! How are YOU planning on dealing with the ^^ Nova Cat running Hyper Laser?

My ideas:


Foward Observer Julz. Backed up by a Kelswa-drop or two, Jack/Julz/BAP is one of the best combos out there. This is the ONLY tankdrop build that has a chance against a Hyper Laser-ed Nova Cat, because it can combat it on equal footing, even factoring in SA-001.

RHDMs. Durrh. However, this is probably closer to the Scott Graves-Evade RHDM rather than the Aiko/Decoy variety. Multiple high-defense Lights can fly downfield, dare the NC to hit them, and then make their move. This is a combo that I wouldn't have given any credence to before Canadian Nats, but after testing the Solitaire swarm, it does work. Quite well, actually.

M Pride. Especially with capture squads, but you can do it other ways too. A good charging Light/Medium 'Mech can ignore blocking and pilot for his charge attempt, effectively neutering the SA's advantage. M Pride in conjunction with Bartleby/Yager (Prioritize) could also effectively lock down the board.

Infantry swarms. Specficially, new CNC Pride-infantry swarms. Take a handful of ^^^ CNC Thunderbirds, the new CNC CBA, CNC Onis, and CNC ATVs. Mix in a few Shamashes/Cizins/Enyos, and you may have a winning forumla right there -- get on top of him, and let the death rain down.

HK Pride. Yashas, Cizins, and Shamashes! Ram-hoooo! ...But beware True Grit.


Okay, I'm just talking crazy now. What do you got for me, high-level players?

[tjpandv]

If I could weigh in with my massive world ranking of 320+, I looked at this by seeing how the Hyper Lazer can be used, and then see how to defeat it. First off, I've only looked at the Nova Cats and the Lokis as potential firers. I've not examined any VA stuff in detail - I'll save that for later.

SC/DF SA - can't be cancelled - gives the firer clear LOF as long as there's a spotter (usually a Sylph up high). Chances are that the mech of choice would be the SC NC in order to give the SA some credance. Not the best, but would be a base 10 AV with a 24 range, pushing out 6 damage. Could also be used on Kaze to give this a 18 inch range, with the option of IT down the dial if it takes damage. Aside from the use of SC/DF pieces, the Lokis' speed over the NCats and the fact that they pick up IT does compensate for their lack of range.

Play Barrens/use PCCs that turn the table into a long distance shooting range. Some Charge Monkey will thank you for this, so not always a good choice.

What are the downsides - you loose a gear slot to the RISC gear so the choice is either a pilot or a second piece of gear. With most mechs pushing a base attack of 10, that AV is likely to become 12 with the best pilot, or 10 and then add IT. I think the pilot is the better option in terms of pure percentages, but I do like the ability to re-roll. (Just as the Mayor of Gotham calls for Batman in his hour of need, I can see a PM to Kotch coming up... ).

The defence value of the firer is not insurmountable. Probably grey armour at best and 22 if there's a 2,2,1 pilot. Also likey to be vulnerable to TTL shots.

Trev's already touched on the RHDM (lite), I would say having a first strike option with ATVs will be a must just to scrape away at the initial AV. Maybe a JF Shamash? (A Nightstalker may be of use in this scenario, not sure about it in general). If your opponent has cleared the terrain, he'll be in the open. Sylphs will die a herioc death if they can pin your target down.

Hyperlazer is against a single target - if he's based and you threaten a light mech charge, he'll have to shoot out of base - your RHDM just got even tougher. If he's taking chances with Hyperlazer, what about the +4 RISC gear for lights? How lucky do you feel? I don't want to go down the RISC route just here, but decoy has to be there as a "cure" but if your opponent is into RISC, he may well be carrying the Viral Decoy Jammer as well on a support piece.

Those are my initial thoughts - not so much on how to take the Hyper Lazer unit down, more how to find and fix it, before killing it.

[baw]

Hyperlaser.. My evaluation ... For worlds it seems too risky. I know I probably will never play it. You could expect me to roll 1 every time I used it If someone does use it they might do good a couple of games but it is going to fail them in one of the games. It seems unlikely most high level players want to put that much risk into their unit. Although the NC NC is still a good unit I prefer IT


The RHDM does give the Hyperlaser some fits. Even a Peacemaker or other RHDM will cause it some headaches. The big question is what kind of Support the NC Vet is going to have. That will make a difference of how you attack it.

Hmmm time to do more thinking!

[tjpandv]

Just been down to the club to split the VA case and saw that we'd had out CTA box delivered. A dozen Marauders and 3 Vultures. I hadn't realised that the Vulture with its evade+pilot gives it a 24 versus ranged. Now get your opponent's hyperlazer mech firing out of base and its a 26 defence, get some hindering and its 27.

Other thoughts on Hyperlazer have to be those PCCs that keep blocking in place and prevent those cards that clear it (Barrens, Beach etc). How many times will you let your terrain placement allow your opponent to fire that far?

[elite130]

there are people who will use it, but I think it will have the same flaw as Phelan will have it will not be reliable every match, IT is.

But in 600 you can cover certain weakness quite well, take a HD Loki with dejesus/stark and add The hyper laser and the reroll FP.

I think we might see that combo more than most people like.

Regards
Elite130

[baw]

I am sure we will see it more than I like I don't like the thought of seeing it across the table at all. I hate armies that depend on good dice rolls because no matter how much you plan for them someone is going to make the numbers one of the times

[TrevortheAwesome]

It's true. I guess the begrudging compromise I've come to in my mind is simply that the dice will eventually fail the person running HyL. You don't have to go undefeated to win Worlds, you just have to go undefeated in the top 8. Or 16. Or whatever. If you take one loss to the person running HyL, but still manage to win your other games, you can still rebound and be alright.

I HATE the thought of someone pulling Seka's Pride in draft, though.

[baw]

I tend to agree about how unfair Seka's Pride would be in draft! (unless I pull it of course)

I hope the dice fail when they are across the table from me.. but it is still something to think about

[tjpandv]

A bit gimmicky, but what about Hermod Solitaire with Nuo Chien. I've never seen it played, but i may be a good blocker to any Hyperlazer attacks.

Like I say, I've not looked into how good the piece is in general.

[TrevortheAwesome]

Thing about Hermod is yes, he's a damage vacuum (for the first couple clicks), but what to do with him after that? He's still a 140-pt Light 'Mech with a good-not-great damage output.

I'm looking harder at straight infantry swarms, though, especially now that I have 10 JF Thunderbirds and 6 JF CBAs...

[baw]

(hmm if you see trevor time for anti-p

I feel awful.. I went to a venue (a guy who used to be our battlemaster opened up the store a little over an hour away each way) I knew one of the guys there.. I played over a year ago against him... I know he hated arty. It was a 600 pt straight game unrestricted. I couldn't find my Jack so I built a little army that seemed to be pretty nasty.. I feel ashamed playing it.

WH Thor
Dejesus
IT
2 merc zahns (oh how I miss these)
Merc kelswa
3 WH Towed Gauss rifles
2 WH Miniguns
and a couple of infantry..

also Merc Faction pride...

I tell you I play Merc Kelswa for a reason.. My first shot I needed 9's with IT with WH THor.. I missed.

Later I was attacking with the merc kelswa and was shooting at a 19 def. I also targeted an infantry. I barely hit the infantry but it was about a 23 pt liao unit so I didn't waste the shot.

That army I played seemed to be rather obnoxious. In the limited environment it did very well Although it is hard to compain about merc Faction pride!