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Post by Zxqueb on Jun 14, 2006 15:50:24 GMT -5
Yes, you can get a 3 cap for the same cost or less. However, you don't get the multiple clicks of recon, which is important in this type of army. Consider the cost difference as the equivilent of paying for command.
As for the TGRs, you don't have much choice when using a SA, I'm afraid. This army can't trade out for BR or more point efficient TGRs. Plus, remember with the SA, these TGRs can hit 5 damage on a drop -- the others cannot!
Z
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Post by brinxter on Jun 14, 2006 16:01:36 GMT -5
well, i personally dont see the merits of any drop wich costs ~110 points wich has an attack of either 8IT or 9 attack, i dont care how much damage they do
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Post by tjpandv on Jun 15, 2006 3:52:48 GMT -5
I rather like SA23. In a drop army, it has the potential to be extremely nasty. Infantry drops especially could become very potent. In my opinion, that would be #3 on the list after LI-ROTS and DF-SC Z Z, you're right about SA-23. I mis-read the fact that it was SW OR WH and RHD. I'd only scored it a 1 on troop selection as I thought you had to rely on SW to get your ability in. I do like having recon, but I'm not sold on those 2 Caps. I'm actually wondering if there is a transport around that will stand a shot from a Hyperlaser?
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Post by Zxqueb on Jun 15, 2006 8:54:43 GMT -5
I do like having recon, but I'm not sold on those 2 Caps. I'm actually wondering if there is a transport around that will stand a shot from a Hyperlaser? Well, most NC hyperlaser shots can do 8 damage (5 + 3). The HD and LI Thors, the heat, and grinder can do 9. Of those, only grinder has a 10 attack (but a bad heat dial). Since you won't be playing IT, the 10 attack is pretty much a necessity on mechs kitted for hyperlaser. So you'll probably be looking at 8 damage mechs mostly to benefit the DF/SC alliance. Looking at battleplanner, the Hyperlaser ignores reflective armor, but it doesn't say anything about hardened or heavy. Which leads me to the potential counters: ROTS bishop can take 8 and be salvaged. It's not great, but at least you don't lose the tank. SC R10 is a better counter. Even at 9 damage, it's taking 7, leaving it unsalvaged and viable. Plus it can be formation push-moved around to keep it from dropping into salvage... or if you are feeling particularly snarky and have been hit with a 9 damage hyperlaser, you can push it without a formation for it's entire move, dropping it into salvage at the end and dropping the tank. It might be worth holding salt flats until you see a hyperlaser army and pick up the extra speed to get into drop range quickly.
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Post by baw on Jun 15, 2006 9:51:12 GMT -5
I played salt flats the other day with a SC R10. A very nice combo With a good transport even hyperlaser isn't going kill your transport
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Post by tjpandv on Jun 16, 2006 3:11:06 GMT -5
Z, you beat me too it! What scared me the most was that I had assumed that any mech carrying Hyperlaser would struggle with getting a decent %age shot against you. If we take something like the SC NC, its a base of 10 but with De Jesus in, its 12. When a 12 AV goes up against transports with a DV of 18, 19, or 20 the percentage hits are 94, 90 and 83 respectively. The CJF R10 and the CNC Bishop pick up decoy, but their percentages shrink to an amazing 90%!! Only those tpts with grey or black armour can really take a shot - (no wonder there are no SC R10s for sake on E Bay . Use the SC/ROTS SA and the SC R10 takes off another click - so Hyperlaser will inflict a mere 5 clicks of damage
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Post by baw on Jun 16, 2006 6:34:25 GMT -5
Don't worry if I was playing it .. I would roll the 1 first time I tried using Hyperlaser HyperLaser does really limit the types of transports you can seriously think about!
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Post by tjpandv on Jun 16, 2006 9:44:37 GMT -5
I'm not so sure now that Hyperlazer is that easy to play - you need a long LOF to make it worthwhile. This then brings it into the type of army that will rely upon PCCs to produce the correct battlefield conditions rather than missions (I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but I'd rather play a "terrain neutral" army). Sticking with the SA theme, I've taken a look at SA-001 to see how it could help...
SC NC + De Jesus (SC Recruit) + Hyperlaser CNC PH1 + Minoru Kurita + IT SC Sylph DF Sylph 2 x SC TBA 3 x DF Shocktroopers SA-001
You can play tunes with the inf - I would prefer more DF and more ballistic. I realise the best AV is either 12 from the NC or 11IT from the PH1 but this is a pretty simple army to play. (I would say simpler than a Jack Nightstalker). Remove the blocking and both mechs have a long reach. Keep blocking and they'll shoot through it if the Sylphs and inf can get a look in.
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Post by baw on Jun 16, 2006 11:53:24 GMT -5
the roll on hyperlaser still scares me though. this is an army that would certainly shut down all the blocking. Time for some planetary conditions to shut this army down..
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Post by Zxqueb on Jun 21, 2006 9:24:20 GMT -5
I'm not so sure now that Hyperlazer is that easy to play The nice thing about hyper laser is that it does double duty. If you need to shoot far away, you can easily out range your opponent. If his army gets in close, it still pumps up the damage scored. Plus it's CHEAP and can be used on mechs that are strong in their own right. The downside is that in order to not lose the game in terrain placement, you need to set up the SA which is a points sink and relys on some initial dice roll luck. Is it easy to play? I think it is if you have your army tweaked out to play it. At the very least, the cost is low enough that you can easily just throw it in there as a damage pump (even on a non-tweaked build) and have it still be an effective weapon. Z
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Post by tjpandv on Jun 21, 2006 15:04:11 GMT -5
My second concern about the Hyperlaser (the first one being to get it to work in the first place) is that the terrain on the table needs to be able to accommodate the LOF. I'm still thinking that SA01 makes the gear pretty difficult to counter.
I like the idea of fitting hyperlaser mechs that already have pulse on the dial as it does give the option of just using regular gear and, like you say, you're only 19 points down. In fact, as most energy mechs keep their damage output, hyper laser late on in the game would be pretty damaging.
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