HK Pure Kaminari + Jack Army

[tjpandv]

That said, the Liao Anat is a great piece for getting a couple of TTLs into position.

I can see their use as a formation but, as BAW says (capital letters to refelct the 1000th post milestone (, the HS TTLs are probably the only one you'd consider if you did this.

One of their best features is their ability to counterbattery your opponent's artillery when they are dropped. A couple of TTL POGs usually force the arty to move or to take the hits.

For me, Choice 1 is a 3-cap with 2 x TTLs and a CT.
Choice 2 would be a 2-cap with 2 TTLs and Choice 3 would be a foot-slogger formation mix of HS TTLs, a HS CT and even a HS Angerona BA (POG, repair, 10" range firing formation).

[baw]

My thoughts behind the TTL's.. They are somewhat vulnerable.. They are fairly cheap though.

With an 18" (non Assault range guy.) They probably can't stand back and hide. They will probably try to get in close. If the TTL's are in range they are good.. One move and then can cover quite a significant portion of the board. In an artillery duel, the TTL's don't stand very well against my favorite piece anyways (Liao Long tom). The long tom is much more expensive. The Kaminari can kill the enemy arty and let the TTL's have free reign

I am not saying I never put TTL's in transports but for the cost of a lot of the transports I could have Liao Long toms which I wouldn't need to move and have much much better area of coverage. It is tricky thing and really depends on your playing style!

Just a couple of thoughts!

[tjpandv]

OK, so its not pure, but here's a variant I may look to take to the next constructed:

Kaminari/Tadashi/IT
Jack/LE Julz
2 x HK ATV
1 x CNC ATV
2 x HK TBA
1 x HK Raiden BA

Comes out at 600. No Decoy or BAP for Jack and no real shot at Seka/Ryohara/Decoy but so far, that's not played much at our club - the closest is Seka/Jurgens(recruited to CW)/Extended Range Targetting. He sits it in hindering and piles up the tokens whenever he misses.

I do like to have harassers/basers in play and thought that the ATVs and the 3 JJ inf should be able to fill this role.

[Zxqueb]

It's not bad, but I really think you do need a reliable way to hit huge defense. Some artillery might help to force your opponent's hand while still keeping the same sort of setup. A reparable one + combat techs or two infantry versions (I still like the SW Mortars). That would be my choice over the infantry. Maybe you could drop in one or two CJF CBAs to keep a harasser in play (since you are already not pure).

Z

[tjpandv]

I can swap out the 3 inf and fit in a couple of SW Mortar Squads with, say, a WH GD Scout BA for support/formation move.

I think the TTLs are a little too expensive and its nice to keep the POGs coming.

I'll give it a test and see what gives.

admin said:

It's not bad, but I really think you do need a reliable way to hit huge defense. Some artillery might help to force your opponent's hand while still keeping the same sort of setup. A reparable one + combat techs or two infantry versions (I still like the SW Mortars). That would be my choice over the infantry. Maybe you could drop in one or two CJF CBAs to keep a harasser in play (since you are already not pure).

Z

[baw]

The SW mortar squads are decent and 2" in nice. I do like have two tokens. If you are using Arty to Control the field it lets you threaten two areas rather than one. Arty is your best friend when someone decides to hide in the woods Nothing like bombing the trees to get them moving!
Seka might be a little hard to hit. Don't forget Jack's -1 to defense and those ATV's could always help with a formation shot against Seka! (but that would be wayyy too close for the shiro!)

The shiro would get a lot of shots off but luck and positioning of terrain is going to be critical!

[asburygrad]

A final battle report on this basic army idea: last Saturday, I played in a 3-round tournament where I fully expected to face an Ares. As it turned out, only one player used one, and he was brand new to the game (he borrowed the Ares from one of the other players). I told the BM that I had built an army just to kill Ares Mechs, and asked him to match me up against other people.

My build:

WH Thor w/ DeJesus and IT
Jack w/ LE Julie (recruited to WH just to burn 4 points)
Merc Zahn w/ Merc Sniper Team + WH TGR
3 WH Minigun Cycles
Merc Pride

My first game was against a Swordsworn fanatic who ran Falcon's Prey and LI Mechs. I dropped the TGR + Sniper Team to formation with the Thor against his SS Warhammer IIC, and it was all downhill after that. 4 VCs.

Second game, new player, also running older Mechs without gear and pilots. The big surprise? He actually played Tornado against my Storm, which turned all my blocking into hindering! He then asked, "What does Tornado do, anyway?" Despite the great use of PCs, he went down quickly. 3 VCs.

Final game was against 22 infantry - including the SC, DF, and SS unique infantry packs - and 2 tankdrops. I just kept the blocking between me and the two SC R10s transporting the tanks, and kept killing infantry in the middle of his formations, leaving him unable to formation move. The Miniguns came up big in this one - that Anti-Personell was a huge surprise, and dealt lots of damage for 3 11-point infantry. 2 VCs (can you really get VC 3 against that many infantry?!?!?).

I really liked this build much better than the Shiro version. The formation lets the basic army concept deal with RHDM much easier, and the miniguns provide needed basers. I may keep this army in the back of my mind - but will "retire" it for now.

[baw]

WH Thor w/ DeJesus and IT
Jack w/ LE Julie (recruited to WH just to burn 4 points)
Merc Zahn w/ Merc Sniper Team + WH TGR
3 WH Minigun Cycles
Merc Pride


Lots of good stuff.

I still haven't fallen in love with Juck and Julz... IT is so powerful but I have only played once. I love the WH Thor and Merc Faction pride. It makes you really able to hit things! The formation drop is really nice also! I think you could have pounded an Ares pretty well! Hide and hit for 5 ap a bunch

The funny thing here is... everyone has been playng True Grit

I have been playing variants on my worlds army and I like seeing how well it will do against True grit!

[asburygrad]

baw said:

I still haven't fallen in love with Juck and Julz... IT is so powerful but I have only played once.

I play at three venues with very different characteristics: one with 6-8 players, all inexperienced, using "fun" army builds; one with 4-6 accomplished players and several really, really good players; and one that is based around two experienced buddies of mine, and we just practice for when we go to bigger venues.

LE Julie is a big bummer for people that aren't expecting her or didn't bring a similar army (Streaks, Yami, etc.) themselves. So I don't want to overuse it at the first venue, and turn new players away. Neither do my friends want to see it repeatedly in our games. And I've already taken it to the second venue, and I don't want to become predictable there.

The big weakness, of course, is PCs or pilot abilities that ignore/eliminate the blocking terrain. Question is, how often will you get hit by them?

[baw]

I haven't seen Julz used a lot. I have used once and it is interesting but can tend to really mess up people. I agree that it is easy for people to get overwhelmed and frustrated when they face an army the feel like they have no chance before even starting! Julz can give you that feeling at times!

[tjpandv]

Getting slightly further away from the Kaminari angle but akin to the WH Thor, I was wondering whether it s too close to call on these mechs:

WH Thor + De Jesus + IT (279)
ROTS Mangonel + Dagmar + IT (283)

Thor has an AO range of 21 inches, single target firing 2-16 and a twin target firing 0-12 (both ballistic), an AV of 11 IT, a DV of 22 with hardened armour. Once primed, it has 10 clicks to salvage with 3 repair markers on the way. There is a shutdown and minor ammo roll on the 3rd click of heat and a crit shutdown and a minor ammo on the 4th.

The Mangonel has an AO range of 18 inches, single target firing 2-14 (ballistic) and twin target 0-12 (energy), an AV of 11 IT, a DV of 24. It has 12 clicks of life to salvage. There is a HS overload on the 3rd click of heat and a crit ammo and shutdown roll on the 4th. Not sure how repairable this is as I can't view the WK site properly.

The WH Thor can make use of the Merc FP, the ROTS Mangonel can make use of the +1 AV ROTS FP.

I still think the WH Thor wins it through range, AO range, Arm Piercing and Hardened armour. Jump jets are also useful in a heavy mech.

The Mangonel's DV of 24 could be enhanced with Decoy and I would also say that having both energy and ballistic is another point in its favour.

The heat dials are probably on a par - more ballistic rolls on the Thors dial but more chance of a re-start if shutdown.

Both make pretty good support for Jack/Julz - the Mangonel with ROTS FP and Julz near the target has a potential 13IT for 6 damage from behind blocking. Add BAP to Jack and that goes to a 14IT equivalent.

Any votes for the Mangonel..?

[baw]

I think I voted with my Worlds army You really can't put decoy on Mangonel or else you can't put the Dutch Approved IT on there Jack and Julz are just wrong on so many levels. You could also argue WH Thor with Merc faction pride and Jack and Julz.. That is also an ugly combo that I don't want to think about.

[asburygrad]

tjpandv said:

Both make pretty good support for Jack/Julz - the Mangonel with ROTS FP and Julz near the target has a potential 13IT for 6 damage from behind blocking. Add BAP to Jack and that goes to a 14IT equivalent.

Any votes for the Mangonel..?

Man, I do like 14 IT! 24 defense is probably enough without the Decoy, and this Mech really, really needs IT. 11 attack just doesn't cut it (even with IT), and even a 14 AV without IT may see you missing the double 11s you need to hit a Decoyed Seka.

For most competitive players in my area, the choices are similar to what was seen at Worlds: Merc Pride, True Grit, or straight-up 600 points. (We might see the HK/HL SA, but only because someone else used it at Worlds.) I have seen the ROTS FP on occasion, but I don't think it's quite as powerful as the Merc Pride.

It's a shame that the choices are so limited, really. There are a lot of FPs that are very interesting, but just don't work quite as well as the top FPs. I love to reroll (SH and HD FPs, SS/SH SA) and I also really like the HS Pride that makes heat rolls easier (with no limit on how many rolls it affects). But in the end, I have to choose Merc or TG, or none at all.

[baw]

That is one of the sad things about Merc Pride. It is so good that you can't afford to play anything else. You either play it, a counter or nothing.