Deliberate Players vs. Deliberatly Slow Players

[dragondawg]

I'm getting the idea that there might have been a player at the European MW Championship who intentionally played slow. No one has come out and said that this player was stalling, but that is the feeling I am getting.

In my opinion, stalling is cheating. The definition of stalling is also subjective.

In my opinion, being deliberate with decisions is good playing.

Where do you begin to make a distinction? What is the difference in your opinion?

[tjpandv]

Aside from the definition of stalling, there's also the stage or stage of the game to consider. I was asked by a BM after my game with the "slow guy" if I had any issues. I think when Elite played him, the Senior BM watched the entire game. At the time, I said no (he was that slow, he was still setting up when everyone else had started!). The situation was further clouded by the fact that I'm pretty sure Elite and I were sure of a place in the last 16.

As for slow play, its something I'd now consider calling a lot more often having been on the receiving end. This guy was slow all game, not just at the end of the game. He was even stalling when he was behind! I'm sure the BMs should have told him to leave his pieces as they were - is there something in the rules about that?

Crossing the line for me has to be when your opponent gets ahead and then slows his pace dramatically. Whats more, its when he spends double the time plotting his move and then moves a single piece.

I think we're all entitled to take our time at critical moments but over a 50 minute period, the pace of the game also changes.

[elite130]

I know some players Worlds attendees who have a bad reputation that way. Problem is what is slow. When faced with a realy difficult situation I also take my time and think about it.

It is more when people start to argue unesserarly and suddenly need to check out what each and every one atv can and cannot do.

The moment I am playing Europian championships or at worlds and my opponent says he is a beginner and he/she only plays for fun, then suddenly they kill some points at my end and sudddenly the game bogs down well what can you do ?

there is no set time limit or turn limit. As such even if judges watch the game what can they do.

Ill simple warn fellow players from some guys. Also I wish referees DO NOT call 5 min. let them call half way through and then let us sweat.

They exists but I know I can play that same game against them. I just think it is boring.

[baw]

I agree the whole "slowness.. Stalling" is an issue. I tend not to be a fast player. I like to scope out my moves and look forward on them. If I am going to slow someone just needs to prod me

I was actually asked at worlds to move more quickly by a Ref. I agree it does make the game bad if people start only playing the clock.

The issue I see with limiting the time to 5 minutes or some abstract but definite figure, it can end up causing issues while someone sits on their hands for the whole 5 minutes even though they don't need the time. They have the justification of "My time is limited to 5 minutes I can use all of it!

[thekaiser]

Hmmm, I have always been of the opinion that stalling deliberately does mean cheating, but stalling is not the easiest thing to point out. I know that when the game or match starts to heat up, I slow down a little, but just to try to make sure I do not make a fast move and cause problems for my pieces. I think that stalling would be more time spent on moves in the area of a few minutes perhaps on a turn. I've really never encountered stall players that often, and the one or two that I may I still managed to beat, because simply put, they were not good players to begin with. In a stalling situation, I usually just try to focus mostly on doing the most damage I can in a turn, just to put him in more of a bind, if he keeps doing it.

Thankfully though, all the games I play now except for the one or two constructed a month are friendly, and usually do not play by a time limit, just to the point when a game is over definitely.

[baw]

It is a very touchy subject and I have seen game won and lost by "stalling". It can be very subjective also though and that is where the problem comes in. If it is killing the game it is a serious problem and generally stalling never happens in friendly games.

[vladdswrath]

It certainly is a problem when you play an entire game and only get 4 or 5 turns in, yes it has happened. I think everyone agrees that super slo mo play during a game is frustrating and an all around bad deal. What isn't so cut and dry is what often happens to me and southpaw. We know each others play styles pretty well and often we end up being within an infantry or two of each other at the 5 minute warning. If he takes his turn, and we both know there is less than three minutes left, what do I do? If I play it slow, I win. If he takes another turn he wins. Why would I let him have another turn? Now in our friendly games and at the local tournament, its not much of a big deal, I try not to press the issue. (Not that Mike doesn't still get mad Whateva!) But if there is a lot at stake, top 8 tables at nationals or something, how can you NOT stall? Sad but true......

[southpaw13]

Stalling is an issue in any timed tournament. The only way to really see if it is happening is to sit and watch the game. Even then, how do you know? It's very hard, but it's the call we have to make sometimes.

Vladd isn't kidding we have a player locally that sometimes you get 4 maybe 5 turns in a game. Is he stalling? Really, after playing him over the course of 3 years, we still can't tell.

SP13

[baw]

In one of my first call to arms.. The player after the game said that I was a little slow after I asked if what he thought of the game. He had pulled a Kodiak and tank drop and I had pulled 2 lights and 1 medium mech. I measured everything to make sure he couldn't attack me. I killed something and ran most of the game and I had to be very careful moving so that I didn't get myself into a nasty position. It certainly wasn't rushing but I was being very careful measuring every attack possibility. I did also confirm with him that I was out of range. I have found playing games that if both players are in agreement with a move that it is easier when it comes to time to resolve the issue. Especially when 1/4" or less is all that there is!

[Zxqueb]

Yep, I agree. Around here, we declare where we are most of the time ("I'm 14 and a half away from your mech, ok?") This keeps the close calls fair. It also helps us remember where things were when pieces get moved and shifted a bit around the battlefield. This tends to help things go a bit faster, if only because range disputes rarely come up.

As for slow players, I tend to dislike playing against players who are slow, either deliberately or inadvertantly. I tend to take my turns pretty quickly and I expect my opponent to do the same. When games become 4-5 turns, with most spent waiting around, they are frusterating. At big tournaments, I have no problem calling over a battlemaster if someone is playing too slowly. Locally, you have to grin and bear it sometimes.

Z

[elite130]

Point is what Southpaw pointed out earlier what is slow play and what isnt. To me if someone is behind on points and is slow that is to his own disadvantage. Then the question does not matter.

But if someone is ahead in VCX and suddenly has to decide for each ATV what this atv has to do well let's say that is overdilligence.

An army of say 20+ pieces (I favour them) takes more time than a army with 8 pieces. And many inf. formations can be seen as a single gamepiece. As such a rule of thumb can be based on the number pieces a person brings to the table.

However at the moment there is simply no good yardstick to decide upon to measure against, as no 2 games are alike let alone 2 players.

As judge it looks to me as a near impossible dillema.

[warlord1985]

admin said:

As for slow players, I tend to dislike playing against players who are slow, either deliberately or inadvertantly. I tend to take my turns pretty quickly and I expect my opponent to do the same. When games become 4-5 turns, with most spent waiting around, they are frusterating. At big tournaments, I have no problem calling over a battlemaster if someone is playing too slowly. Locally, you have to grin and bear it sometimes.

Z

But I thought playing Old Steve was what you lived for?!

[baw]

Ok Southpaw13.. When Zxqueb and I are playing You better expect to be called (j/k)

I also truly dislike waiting on someone. Sometimes I feel like I am just too slow though
If I get to play at worlds VS Zxqueb we shall see whether or not he calls me a slow player. I am betting he will

[Zxqueb]

Ok, Baw -- Don't take too much offense when I call over a battlemaster -- Just hurry up already!!

The worst case of playing a staller was playing against a guy who couldn't even decide how he wanted to set up until 15 minutes into the time. We got through three turns. The end turn was him playing rather quickly in the last three minutes, throwing everything at one piece and stalling out the end of the game. I was not a happy camper.

Z

[elite130]

My worst was at worlds against a japanese guy.

His army was Kodiak, and Arnis and 3 ATV's.

My army was a flying tankdrop nightmare from hell, he took 30 min at setup.

I played 4 turns in total I won because I could salvage Arnis but I would have had way more if he didnt took 30 mins...............


I dont mind taking your time but his army was 5 pieces in total.

Normaly I would destroy his whole army..........

Ah well