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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 23, 2006 11:21:11 GMT -5
The state of Mechwarrior aside, does anyone else wonder if collectible mini's games in general are going to survive the skyrocketing costs that are occuring in these games? The primary complaint put forth by most of us about Mech is the fact that 80 percent of what comes in a set is unplayable yet the price has jumped to 15 bucks a box.
WOTC boosters are up to $23 for the huge packs (still a 60 piece set, with Ultra-rares) and 14.99 for Dreamblade and new Star wars releases. The starship battles game has $40 starter, and $22 boosters.
It now costs $40 - $50 to play in a sealed tourney, a pretty hefty investment for many. When I started playing these games, a booster cost $6 or $7 bucks. A sealed Tournament cost about $20, the same as a trip to the movies or pretty much any other entertainment one might partake in.
Presently, I have to pay the same admission to go to a local game tournament as I do to get a ticket to a Professional sports venue or a concert. These games are rapidly becoming out of reach for the average person. It's always been a rich man's hobby, but it seems to be becoming more so.
Unfortunately, the end result of all this is that the only way to play is to commit all your resources to a single game. By extension, you then narrow the amount of people you can game with (they have to pick up the same game you do, at a heavy investment). Additionally, the chances of a game floundering increase as the player base narrows. I don't necessarily believe that game companies are gouging us and I'm not sure anything can be done about it. I just wonder how many people are going to be involved in collectible gaming 5 years from now. What do you guys think?
-Vladd
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Post by warlord1985 on Oct 23, 2006 12:03:21 GMT -5
I too agree with these statements. I play VS System, Star Wars, and Dreamblade in that order of purchase importance. VS is nice and cheap pack wise but of course you have to buy boxes of cards for 70-80 bucks. Star Wars is expensive, especially with WotC putting out Starship Battles, Bounty Hunters, and the Clone Strike Re-release in such succesive fashion. I am so poor right now  But I am wondering if gaming will be there or if the companies would ever consider giving the buyers a brake, something like what Wizkids does with their "Buy it by the Brick" idea. It is, honestly, the best incentive to buying in a game store. You get something for your troubles. An exclusive fig is a very nice idea. I will give WK props for that. All in all, gaming is still way too expensive. I really hope Dreamblade does something to piss me off so I can dump it and not pay $$$$ for it.  -W |
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Post by Zxqueb on Oct 24, 2006 11:17:19 GMT -5
The percentage of worthless pieces is by far the biggest factor in my puchasing habits. Currently, my order of purchase has been Dreamblade, VS System and Mech in that order. Mech has so many pieces that I just don't want cluttering my house, that I'm going to just get the few things in WS that I do want from the secondary market and be done with it. Dreamblade has a much higher % of useful pieces, so I don't mind buying boosters now and again (though much of what I have for that is also from the secondary market).
And Vs.. Well, I just need to get one more box of heralds and I'll be happy.
Do I think the cost is too high? Well, it depends on your purchase habits. I think you can play these games on the relatively cheap if you buy from secondary sources and stick to a single faction. The more armies / decks you want to be able to build, the more costly it's going to be!
But with prices being what they are, I find myself less inclined to blind purchasing.
Z
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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 24, 2006 16:20:49 GMT -5
Do I think the cost is too high? Well, it depends on your purchase habits. I think you can play these games on the relatively cheap if you buy from secondary sources and stick to a single faction. The more armies / decks you want to be able to build, the more costly it's going to be! But with prices being what they are, I find myself less inclined to blind purchasing. Z And this is more or less my point. I am not protesting gaming for being to expensive, I am certainly not quitting anytime soon. I just wonder how long "randomized blind purchase games" are going to last. Generally speaking, buying singles used to be a more expensive proposition. A big unique might cost 30-50 bucks when a booster was only 7-10 dollars. Essentially you were taking a gamble to triple or quadruple your investment. Now, in Dreamblade for example, Most rares (warcharms aside) cost about 15 bucks. Thats the same price as a booster, you are taking a gamble to break even! What's the point? As I see it, you ARE better off buying the singles you want. Which is exactly the point of this thread. My question is do you think gaming will continue in its current form or do you think it will evolve into more of a Games Workshop type environment where you know exactly what you are getting? -Vladd |
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Post by Zxqueb on Oct 25, 2006 10:31:11 GMT -5
Indeed. Non-blind purchases mean that every piece absolutely needs to be balanced and/or useful or they sit on the shelf. I'd almost rather see some of these games go to that format because of this fact. Blind purchase means that even if a piece is not useful, it can be slipped into boosters, "padding" the number of figures avalible and potentially keeping people buying more to get "the good stuff." I've got a lot of sea fox units that fit that description.
Do I think collectable games will go away. Not really. Especially if the companies involved show some love to the tournament scene and keep it going. Without tournament scenes, games tend to fall flat anyway.
Besides, GW put out their earnings recently and had TERRIBLE profits in the last year or so. So obviously non-blind purchasing isn't the be all and end all. WK is starting to hurt financially too.
Yet WotC (collectable) and Privateer press (Non-blind, maker of warmachine and hordes) seem to both be doing well.
I guess success in the marketplace mostly still depends on the basics: Solid games, buyer perception and consistent support.
My $.02,
Z
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Post by vladdswrath on Oct 26, 2006 13:23:08 GMT -5
Do I think collectable games will go away. Not really. Especially if the companies involved show some love to the tournament scene and keep it going. Without tournament scenes, games tend to fall flat anyway. Besides, GW put out their earnings recently and had TERRIBLE profits in the last year or so. So obviously non-blind purchasing isn't the be all and end all. WK is starting to hurt financially too. Yet WotC (collectable) and Privateer press (Non-blind, maker of warmachine and hordes) seem to both be doing well. Z I certainly am not saying that collectible gaming itself is going to end, I meant collectible miniatures games. Card gaming is fine, even though they have also crept up to $4.00 a pack. At four dollars, the average kid can still buy a couple of packs. Thats barely more than a cup of Starbucks (not sure what's worse, cards are more than coffee or that the coffee price even makes it close ;D ) It's the fact that a single booster of figures for these games is approaching and sometimes surpassing $20.00 that is my concern. As for Games Workshop, they are indeed suffering. It may have been a bad comparison in my earlier post, Heroscape would probably have been a better comparison. Fairly inexpensive, Pre-painted, and not a blind purchase. Warhammer 40k and its ilk still have the hurdle of not being painted, and usually quite expensive for the single mini blisters, so it really isn't a great alternative to CMG's. In the end though, Zxqueb is right about one thing. Without good mechanics and an active tourney scene, any collectible game, no matter how good is going to be dead in the water... -Vladd |
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Post by Zxqueb on Oct 26, 2006 14:22:15 GMT -5
As for Games Workshop, they are indeed suffering. It may have been a bad comparison in my earlier post, Heroscape would probably have been a better comparison. Fairly inexpensive, Pre-painted, and not a blind purchase. Warhammer 40k and its ilk still have the hurdle of not being painted, and usually quite expensive for the single mini blisters, so it really isn't a great alternative to CMG's. It is an interesting comparison. Heroscape has a "gamer" following, but is marketed in major retail stores and marketed as a boardgame (sort of the same thing WK is trying to do with Pirates). Because of this, it hits a MUCH wider audience then other games might. Plus, it is rules-lite so can be picked up by a wide range of age groups and enjoyed by whole families (though I have yet to convince my wife of that  ). Mech, DBM, and WHFB/40K are all more true-"gamer" games. That is, they take more investment in terms of time and energy to learn the ins and outs. Plus there is that whole tournament thing that gamers do that the average board game playing family doesn't. Still, if CMGs go towards the non-blind purchase, Heroscape has a pretty good model. Packaging a couple units together helps to increase the appeal of the entire package. Plus, that game rewards multiples of figures which helps drive multiple purchases. It remains to be seen if a non-blind purchase, pre-painted, true "gamer" miniatures game with an active tournament scene can be successful in the marketplace. I'd love to see such a game come out, but it would be more risky for a company to try because it does not conform to a currently established business model. It's an interesting question, Vladd! |
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). Mech, DBM, and WHFB/40K are all more true-"gamer" games. That is, they take more investment in terms of time and energy to learn the ins and outs. Plus there is that whole tournament thing that gamers do that the average board game playing family doesn't.