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Post by tjpandv on Mar 31, 2006 9:43:49 GMT -5
Within the next day or so, I should get the green light from Mrs C to get me and my eldest son over to Paris for the Euro Tourney. We're Twinless and I'm pretty sure that no FAQ will bite before the event on the 22-23 Apr. So, with the best will in the world, we're playing from scraps and with that in mind. we're looking at some armies that will be fun to play and may cause a few waves. Attempt no 1:
Seafox Solitaire + Minouru Kurita Pilot Seafox Solitaire + Minouru Kurita Pilot Seafox Solitaire + Minouru Kurita Pilot ROTS Bishop BR TGR x 3 ROTS Bishop HL CT HS TTL x 2 CNC ATV HK ATV x 2 ROTS MG Cycle x 4
Build rules are 600 points constructed that must include 2 mechs minimum. Let me know what you think.
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Post by Zxqueb on Mar 31, 2006 10:23:35 GMT -5
There are things that I really like about this army.
First, the good:
--You have 3 light mechs that can charge X3 and salvage a twin in one go. --You don't keep all your eggs in one basket.. i.e.; you have 4 independant "hammer" units.. the loss of one isn't a huge deal. --You have a bit of everything, drop+arty+ mechs + basers/firststrikers + repair / fully repairable mechs.
Things to consider for improvements:
I'm not a huge fan of the seafox solitaires since they are weak coming out of the gate. They have a heat effect on their second click. For 2pts more, I'd take the BR versions every time, if only for the +1 attack and the ability to KILL a twin on turn 1 in the enemy DZ if you need to charge (x3) the twins. I would take Barrens for this purpose -- get rid of the terrain so you can negate their +2 defense. Also, the BR versions can do some formation fire with each other and the TGRs or CC formations if you need while the seafox can't.
The army is very vulnerable to subzero and caustic. You may want to think about swapping out some infantry for battle armor. I know Sub and Caustic (the latter especially) will be in my hand at big tournaments for just this sort of army.
Also, how do you hit a RHDM? I know you have the TTLs, but those are relatively easily dealt with by support. And once those are dealt with, you don't have a reliable way to hit 24+.
Anyway, those are my initial impressions.
Z
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Post by moonsammy on Mar 31, 2006 12:05:30 GMT -5
So, Zxqueb, are you arguing that the best way to take on the twins is to take the fight to them with quick charges? I'm still hung up on trying to outlast them with either RHDMs or something that can take a pounding and then hit back, i.e. RD mechs or EJL.
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Post by tjpandv on Mar 31, 2006 12:13:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback - fist off it seems I over-pointed it by a HS TTL so...
BR Solitaire + Minoru Kurita BR Solitaire + Minoru Kurita BR Solitiare + Tamar Grad ROTS Bishop 3 x WH CBA ROTS Bishop 2 x HS Centaur BA 1 x HS CT 2 x HK ATVs 1 x CNC ATV 3 x ROTS Miniguns
Very good point about the RHDM. My initial thoughts are (and this is pretty weak!):
1. Prey that fitting an RHDM + another mech into 600 is too much for most people (vulnerable to Twins/Phelan Ward). 2. Swarm with the Solitiares. 3. Base it and get after the rest.
Hopefully it s a little more robust against PCCs and the WH CBA, whilst they loose out on range over the TGRs, become more versatile over the space of 50 minutes. I'd also hope to get VC3 in a lot of games.
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Post by moonsammy on Mar 31, 2006 12:40:45 GMT -5
As long as I'm on here, I'll throw out my two cents...
I like the WH CBAs instead of the BR TGR for the purposes of avoiding damage from PCs, but I feel that the WH CBAs lose the ability to be able to fire on their own against a target. In other words, the BR TGR drop can act as a formation drop to assist something larger than itself, or it can fire as its own formation with an 11 IT for three damage. The WH CBAs can still act as a formation assist, but they trade the AV of the TGR for more mobility and less range.
Having said that, mobiility is never a bad thing, and the TGRs are anything but mobile. Also, the range isn't as much of a factor because the CBAs JJs mean that you can drop your formation from the sky (knocking them to their prime click in the process) without spending the two movement points to lower your Bishop. Of course, I'm normally loath to play my VTOL transports at cruising with a non-JJ equiped unit inside, but being able to keep the Bishop at cruising could come in handy since you'd never have to break it away and it would be immune to charges/CC.
Over all, this is a tough decision. I'm not as high on the WH CBAs as I once was because they don't last too long, and their AV drops off the table pretty quick (granted they are just inf., but they are 19 pt inf.) But the TGRs sacrifice mobility and fall prey to PCs...
Since you've got plenty of basers, and especially since you made the switch to BR Solitaires, I think I'd go with the TGRs, the formation fire is that important.
Let me know what you think.
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Post by baw on Mar 31, 2006 13:44:39 GMT -5
I don't know.. I might like another combat Tech. You can repair everything in that army except the WH CBA's. If you took BR TGR's you could repair everything! (except another combat tech) I like having dual repairs with that many things needing repairs. The solitaires have a hard first hit but the drop quickly. One of the reasons I really recommend another repair unit.
50 minutes with that many units will go quickly. I am more of an advocate of BR TGR's. I haven't played the WH CBA's yet though!
Hmm I will think more about this.
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Post by Zxqueb on Mar 31, 2006 15:35:02 GMT -5
So, Zxqueb, are you arguing that the best way to take on the twins is to take the fight to them with quick charges? I'm still hung up on trying to outlast them with either RHDMs or something that can take a pounding and then hit back, i.e. RD mechs or EJL. I am not arguing that chargemonkeys are an answer to the twins. I don't actually think there is a good, reliable answer to the twins. Therein lies the problem with them. I only suggest that it is one possible way to kill one quickly before your opponent can react. Unfortunately it means that you must get the 1st turn, your opponent must not be base screened and you have the ability to roll a 9-11 depending on where you can charge. Those are a lot of ifs. I'd actually use that only if the opportunity presented itself. In actuality, if the twins launch at your mechs, at least you can kill one in retaliation (2x 6 damage pulses) with two BR solitaires while retreating the other to be healed. Just thinking out loud. Z
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Post by tjpandv on Mar 31, 2006 15:38:02 GMT -5
So, Zxqueb, are you arguing that the best way to take on the twins is to take the fight to them with quick charges? I'm still hung up on trying to outlast them with either RHDMs or something that can take a pounding and then hit back, i.e. RD mechs or EJL. I' started the thread as I'm really just after some help should I get to go to the Europeans in Paris. I've looked at RHDMs but as the build rules for the Euro Evnet are that you must have a minimum of 2 mechs, I just feel you can't squeeze a lot of support on top of an RHDM + light. I think if the mech limit wasn't in force, a well-supported RHDM could well do the job. BAW - I know what you mean about the extra repair - I keep wondering if those Centaurs going to do much good? If not, I may go for a couple of SC saxons each with a CT inside.
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Post by baw on Apr 3, 2006 7:38:59 GMT -5
I know Zxqueb is a large advocate of Saxon and CT's. I feel the solitaires can move fast enough to get back to the CT's. I would rather have a couple more CT's and not more saxon's and CT's. Just my feelings. Then again I usually play arty to beat his arty If they were going to threaten my CT's. 1 Saxon and Ct maybe ok. I would take 3 more ct's rather than another saxon and CT. (although that is starting to be a lot of ct's) I actually Like the arty. They can help pull you out of a spot when you need to control the flow of the battle some. ok.. as far as Arty goes.. I much much prefer the HS TTL's than the HS Centaurs. Two tokens and two damage is very good. (It isn't Armor Piercing I know) It does give you a much larger control of the battlefield though. You might keep 1 HS Centuar if you feel you really need the AP. But the pogs are awesome on the HS TTL and they are very good! As far as RHDM, Solitude is pretty impressive. He is going to be beast to fight with your army. I would also be examing PC's and Mission cards real carefully. The only way I have ever beat twin armys is by charging. That seems to be a Weakness for them.. (a minor one at that) I haven't missed the first charge yet.. if I do it will probably cost me the game.
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Post by baw on Apr 6, 2006 11:34:20 GMT -5
Have you played around with any of these armies yet? I am like Zxqueb and I really don't care for the Seafox Solitaires either. I am just curious how they did for you!
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Post by tjpandv on Apr 9, 2006 15:30:06 GMT -5
See what you mean about the SF Solis - the heat dial killed them and for 2 points extra, the BR ones are a lot better. I'm looking at forming the centre of the army on 2 BR Solis and Phelan Ward (no gear, though). There's still enough room for a drop and the miniguns/ATVs. I think 3 lights is a good option but the drop is going to have to be either the arty/repair one or the infantry one. If I try and fit both in, the fast basers get eaten into too much. So it should look like this:
BR Soli + Minoru K BR Soli + Minoru K Vengance + Phelan Ward ROTS Bishop 2 x ROTS Centaurs 1 x ROTS Combat Tech 1 x CNC + 2 x HK ATVs 4 x ROTS MG Cycles JF Sylph
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Post by elite130 on Apr 9, 2006 16:13:32 GMT -5
Good army ill enjoy playing against it ;-p
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Post by baw on Apr 10, 2006 6:16:22 GMT -5
That is the best army that you have put so far. You have something to take care of the big assault mech! (Phelan) The 2 BR solitaires are very decent pieces. The JF sylph is always a nice harasser /finisher. My issues with the army --- ROTS Centaurs are pretty accurate. They just don't help you control the Battlefiedl. (you must truly be expecting lots of Hardened armor) Also with so many repairable units.. I would like to have another combat tech. What is your plan for the ATV's? First shot against a TWin if they are there? I am a little curious about your pilot choices. I would have picked someone like scott with +2 defense for the solitaires. Let me know why you ahve the atv's and I might through together a slightly different army for you
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Post by tjpandv on Apr 10, 2006 11:09:09 GMT -5
3 of the ATVs were there to get the Turn 1 formation shot at one of the Twins. I was 26 points under, so opted for a couple more ATVs to improve the AV/act as basers. Scott Graves is a good idea and the points would work. I was working on 2 Centaurs or none but had thought about dropping them both for a second Combat Tech + and Elite inf combo. Good repair capability but now I'm getting vulnerable to nasty PCCs).
Any suggestions more than welcome!
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Post by baw on Apr 10, 2006 12:16:16 GMT -5
I am not sure I see the need for the Elite inf in this army. The Highest defense you will have is like 20 or so.. I really don't think the elite infantry are worth the points with this army. The combat techs can repair almost any of your units also I really think I would prefer swapping out the bishop and the Centaurs (and maybe most of the ATVS and a couple of Miniguns possible) for at least a couple of pieces of decent artillery. I will post a suggestion in a bit
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